Irrelevant
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Tucker is a Captain and Ally product
Best upland gun dog breed?
- Thread starter ismith
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ismith
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Beautiful dog!
ismith
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My wife loves Goldens, got her a Goldendoodle back in September.
ismith
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I've wanted a Setter since I was a 4th grader due to some book we read in class.
AlaskaHunter
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I started hunting with English Setters and Vislas.
I prefer labs because of there versatility.
Late season roosters in a sea of cattails? Perfect for a lab
Drop a bird in water, not a problem.
Need to hunt big open country, not a problem, I simply whistle sit the lab when she gets birdy at 200 yards.
Plus labs are probably the easiest breed to train.
Easy to teach with a couple bumpers.
I prefer labs because of there versatility.
Late season roosters in a sea of cattails? Perfect for a lab
Drop a bird in water, not a problem.
Need to hunt big open country, not a problem, I simply whistle sit the lab when she gets birdy at 200 yards.
Plus labs are probably the easiest breed to train.
Easy to teach with a couple bumpers.
As others have already said, you need to decide what you’ll be hunting and what type of hunter you want, flusher or pointer. Other decisions come down to coat, do you want a short hair or long hair. If you’re hunting thickets with briars and such, long hairs can be a chore after the hunt, GSPs & other shorthairs may not be as hearty in the duck blind. Regardless of this, any breed can/will do what you want, as long as you get a good dog (research breeders) and put the time & effort into not only training, but making that dog your best friend. Socialize with people and other dogs and expose to as many different environments as possible. The training book I’m most fond of is Bill Tarrant/Delmar Smith, ‘Best Way to Train Your Gundog’. Good luck!
TX Trophy Hunter
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I haven’t shot much quail since high school but back then I used an 870 express 12 ga and made my little brother fetch them.
Idahoarcheryhunter
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I’ve hunted behind Hungarian vizslas for many years, currently on my third one personally. They’re a very high drive dog and I couldn’t imagine them not being in our family. My current dog (drax) is psychotic though. They need constant exercise but also make great family dogs. They’re not the best retrievers but I’ve force fetched all of them and they did fine. I also have a pointing lab who’s a good mix of everything but has nowhere near the stamina of any of my vizslas. Not to keep kicking the horse, but the type of dog really depends on the style of hunting you do.
Buy from a specific cross that has a proven record of producing what you want. Breed is less important. Also, get a handshake agreement that if you keep him posted throughout the training process, that he will take a cull back. Bird dog breeders are especially bad about shoveling horse apples so walk away if you have doubts.They get away with it because people won't admit they paid high dollar for a pig in a poke.
Agree 100%, have had labs for 40 years. Recently got a couple english setters and having a blast hunting and training with them, but if I needed to put food on the table I'd release the lab.
My setters and book setters are very different. I buy my dogs from Robertson Kennels in Payette, Idaho. They breed dogs to compete in the horse field trials. I currently own a GSP too. The setter has gears that the GSP doesn’t have when running fast and searching for birds.
My current pup is 3 years old. She’s a 200-400 yard dog. Her farthest point yesterday was 393 yards on chukar. Others were closer at 120-250 yards. Love the BEEP from my garmin telling me to go find my white lightning on point.
If I was primarily hunting pheasants, I’d buy a GSP or a flusher. Open ranges, setter time.
She’s a great house dog too. Very mellow dog who loves family attention. She’s currently sleeping on my lap as I drink coffee.
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appaloosa
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Irrelevant
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Interesting, I've never seen a more intense or athletic dog that my GSP was. The only two setters I've hunted behind had moderate athletics. There may have been some field trial pointers over the years that were on her level, but I still don't think they had her speed and endurance though they had much better noses. My current GWP is but a fraction as athletic, much slower, significantly less endurance and they just don't have the intensity that a GSP or Pointer will have. BUT my GWP is a much better hunter that she ever was, hold points for an eternity, hunts for me not against me, cues entirely off body signal, and all without any training.
It’s not even close GSP/Drath to western bred setter in my experience as far as speed and bird finding ability. I had a good GSP when I bought my first setter. She spent the rest of her life backing my setter. I’ve hunted with a bunch of GSPs as they’re popular with friends. Good dogs but the setters find 80%+ of the birds. Same for the few Draths I hunted with but they were big dogs.
When the setters are young and hot, they’ll push out 600-800 yards before they mature and match the hunter speed. Being so far out makes a lot of hunters nervous and I understand.
Western bred setters are a different bred creature than tbe Llewellin Setter type eastern setter.
The National Amateur Chukar Championships which is held in Idaho/Oregon or Washington is won by a pointer or setter every year. I can’t remember another breed making the podium. A special GSP might have a chance.
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Irrelevant
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I didn't even know that was a thing!
It’s a deep rabbit hole if you start looking into it.
BirdManMike
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Agree with above. E. Pointers bred for horseback trialing are the biggest running, most intense, 'best' pointing dog available - the sky is the limit, theyll run to the ends of the earth and hold point til the end of time if youll let them (which I agree with statement this can makes a lot of guys nervous, especially those that need to feel in total control). Setters follow closely behind with the other dogs bred for this trialing - GSPs, Vizslas (western field trialing, not the continental, versatile bloodlines in both cases) - falling a bit short of the ceiling of a setter or pointer. The best specimens of the versatile breeds can only hope to match a mediocre pointer when it comes to covering ground and holding point.
A few falconers I know run these e. pointers and I am blown away every time I see them run. For as big as Greta (my vizsla from field trialers) runs, she pales in comparison to the ground these dogs cover and intensity they have.
That said, covering the most ground in the shortest time isnt necessarily a desire or need of (probably) most hunters. These breeds and bloodlines are wasted (and can be ruined) hunting pheasants in most situations and they dont do well as retrievers. They also require a certain amount of 'letting go' by the handler to get the most out of them to go back to needing to feel in total control over the dog and along with earlier statements in the thread of not cooperating. In reality they are cooperating (usually), but their understanding of what they should be doing is different than that of a versatile dog. NAVDHA-style training - pigeon launchers, check cords, woah posts, training fields, and all the other methods meant to drill handler control - will utterly ruin these dogs. They need to be 'trained' on wild birds in open spaces - partridge, sharptail, chickens, sage grouse - and this is where they will excel.
There is nothing wrong with a lab, flusher, or versatile breed for anyone that does not intend to focus solely on hunting birds in wide open spaces. Mountain grouse and pheasants are better hunted with a closer and slower working dog. These breeds will be far better at any sort of waterfowling. Theyll also be perfectly OK for hunting those prairie birds.
A few falconers I know run these e. pointers and I am blown away every time I see them run. For as big as Greta (my vizsla from field trialers) runs, she pales in comparison to the ground these dogs cover and intensity they have.
That said, covering the most ground in the shortest time isnt necessarily a desire or need of (probably) most hunters. These breeds and bloodlines are wasted (and can be ruined) hunting pheasants in most situations and they dont do well as retrievers. They also require a certain amount of 'letting go' by the handler to get the most out of them to go back to needing to feel in total control over the dog and along with earlier statements in the thread of not cooperating. In reality they are cooperating (usually), but their understanding of what they should be doing is different than that of a versatile dog. NAVDHA-style training - pigeon launchers, check cords, woah posts, training fields, and all the other methods meant to drill handler control - will utterly ruin these dogs. They need to be 'trained' on wild birds in open spaces - partridge, sharptail, chickens, sage grouse - and this is where they will excel.
There is nothing wrong with a lab, flusher, or versatile breed for anyone that does not intend to focus solely on hunting birds in wide open spaces. Mountain grouse and pheasants are better hunted with a closer and slower working dog. These breeds will be far better at any sort of waterfowling. Theyll also be perfectly OK for hunting those prairie birds.
I believe this is the route we are going to go here in the next year or so. Have a friend that breeds them. It’s between the cocker or a water spaniel. Want a small hunting dog that rides fine in a vehicle on trips too
Hem
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Tough to generalize. My male GWP has amazing endurance even now at 9. But he is very long legged. Many times people have questioned his age thinking he is far younger. His strength was covering massive ground on the prairie seeking Sharptails. That dog would run 12-15 miles nose to the ground and wind without slowing down and hold point until I finally catch up. Serious energy, a hindrance with more confined hunting. I never hunted waterfowl with him but he is just as comfortable in the water.
VikingsGuy
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Lots of great options out there, but we are locked into English-style Labs. Typically great noses, frequently have a natural point, strong hunting drive, great retrievers, wonderful family dogs, way calmer than traditional American labs and most other hunting breeds, super versatile - pheasants, grouse, ducks, geese, sheds etc, and cold weather/water tolerant. Only two downsides - a lot of shedding and they can run hot in warmer climates.
