Any ex-smokers trained for an Elk hunt?

[devon deer]

Hi All,
My training is going fine, up to 14 miles and increasing the pack size gradually.
Now i have never smoked, but my buddy gave up about 8 months ago, he has recently joined me on the walks, on the level he is fine, when we go up steep area's he really suffers, every 75 yards i have to wait for him, he feels sick, light headed, even his vision gets blurred!
This is really worrying me, how is he going to cope in Montana with the steep climbs and altitude?
We dont have any high elevations in the UK to train on.
I have no idea how to get over this.
Any advice guys?
Cheers
Richard

 

[Straight Arrow]

Having been a smoker over thirty years ago, I recall quitting for my own health but also for my kids. It was getting difficult climbing the mountain with my then seven-year old son who tagged along on some hunts. Fortunately, through running, hiking, keeping in shape I can still keep up with him ... and his license plate reads "HNT MAX" ... so he's out there!

Anyhow, the only way to get the lungs and legs ready for Montana mountainsides is to train and workout. Running, hiking, and aerobics will help. One good exercise is to run stadium or bleacher stairs to train for climbing steep slopes. Alot of it comes from the desire and mental commitment to get to the top of the stairs, treadmill, mountain or whatever climb.

 

[Big Fin]

If he is having those kind of symptoms on flat ground in the UK, he is going to be a mess when he gets to an elk camp at 6,000' and is asked to hike up an down some pretty steep hills. I fear he is going to be a liability in the hunt, even though you have six months to continue training.

Being light headed and blurred vision is a not good. In the oxygen depleted environment of the higher altitudes, it will get dramatically worse. He will probably have some serious altitude sickness for the first few days. His respiration rate will increase dramatically, as will his heart rate. he might want a medical opinion about how to best acclimate and prepare himself for the changes and for the exertions that come with elk hunting.

Not sure there are any short-term answers for that one. It will take time for his body to improve after years of smoking. Having never smoked, I have no idea how long that will take.

Good luck.

 

[dustinf]

I'm an ex-smoker, and after a few weeks of quitting my lungs feel like they do now.

It seems to me that he may have other issues. Maybe an appointment with a doctor to check his lungs?

Altitude affects everyone differently. There is a football player on the Steelers that can't play in Denver because of the altitude. He's a proffessional athlete, and Denver is only 5,000ft. I've read accounts of Sherpa's smoking above 20,000ft on Everest.

 

[DBear]

Without question, he needs to go get a full check-up and make sure he tells the doctor the symptoms!!! Those are serious symptoms and not something to ignore. The sky is the limit on what those symptoms could be, but some of them are significant. It could be numerous things from heart issues to diabetes to just poor shape, but the bottom line is he needs to see a doctor. Also, I would advise not to train anymore until he gets a proper medical evaluation. There have been several people who have had heart attacks and died elk hunting as it is one of the most physically demanding thing someone can do. You cannot ignore these warning signs.

 

[DBear]

The football player in question above has sickle cell anemia which can worsen at elevation with low oxygen content.

 

[mixedbag]

I agree with BF. I think you have a liability going hunting with you.I smoke and it really doesn't bother me a bit climbing hills at altitude.I train myself pretty hard all year;not crazy though.I've never experienced blurred vision,and doubt that has anything to do with smoking.If he's lightheaded now, it WILL be ALOT worse at altitude.My body usually adjusts in a day or two to the altitude
I hope you have a good hunt,but your buddy needs to get to a doc

 

[Art Vandeley]

Lots of elk live in lower flattish type country.

 

[Bambistew]

Sounds to me like your friend needs to see a doctor ASAP. IMO your friends health is a hell of a lot more important than a stupid hunting trip.

 

[tarheel]

Richard, I agree with the see a doctor crowd. A good cardio-pulmonary work up is in order. RT

 

[devon deer]

Thanks for the replies, i agree, he should see his doctor, so i have suggested this to him, which i might do myself.
I just hope he hasnt got an underlying problem because he is a really nice guy and keen as mustard for this trip.
I have suggested we give it another month and tackle the same hill again without stopping and then review it.
I am not going to book my flight until we have done this.
He did make me laugh yesterday, he had previoulsy told me he had been up Mont Blanc in France and had not experienced any problems with altitude, so i asked him yesterday how did he find climbing that mountain? oh no he says, i didnt climb it, we took a cable car to the top!
Cheers
Richard

 

[DKO]

theoretically if he quit 8mo ago his lungs should not be the problem, if he was a heavy smoker plaque buildup doesn't just disappear over night, blood flow would be the culprit from what it sounds like, and in-depth physical would be in order for sure. Had a buddy with similar issue one stint later he was good to go and had no issues in the hills!

good luck and hope he's able to come with you and doesn't become a liability you have time! make sure you ease you into elevation if coming from sea level give yourself a couple days! going from elev. 0 to 10,000 in one day or even two could prove challenging.

 

[putm2sleep]

He is fine, maybe, and 8 months is nothing. You can quit but quiting does not undo. Takes many years to undo damage. note: I see the same 'symptoms' when I am getting high school swimmers in shape each spring. Light headness, dizzy, little sick in the gut. red face.....means they are working hard.

Just part of gettin into shape.

 

[mtlion]

I agree with the last two posters. I live here and and am lucky enough to kill an elk nearly every year. Am I in beastmode shape? No. Am I in good shape? Depends on who you're comparing to. Am I in good enough shape? Look in my freezer.

The point is I sound just like your buddy, I do fine on the flat stuff, on the steep stuff I stop every 75 yards, I get dizzy and my vision gets blurry. I always just thought that's what elk hunting feels like.

My advice is for the both of you to get in the best possible shape you can in the time you have and IMO you have plenty of time. When you get here take it easy at first and don't bite off more than you can chew. IMO many elk hunters place too much emphasis on climbing the biggest steepest mountain or getting the farthest in they can. Getting away from roads will definitely help your odds, but you don't need to be 10 miles back in to kill an elk...For example, I have killed 2 bulls witihin a mile of paved highways in SW MT and one of my favorite honey holes is a very easy 1/2 mile hike. This spot has kicked out quite a few elk for me, my family and friends through the years. There are plenty of places in SW MT where you can sleep in a real bed, drive an hour or less and hike an hour in the morning and be in elk.

Now don't get me wrong, elevation changes can play havoc on your system and it is nothing to belittle. And remember just because you aren't gasping for air at sea level doesn't mean that you won't have problems yourself. I have seen people who are extremly active at 6k ft elevation here in MT go to 10+k and and try the same activity level and have serious issues resulting in visits to the emergency room. Thus, my advice is ease into it and at first try to stick to areas where you would be within an hour or so of medical help if needed. Keep hydrated!!!! Maintain proper nutirtion and rest and just don't overdo it. Both of you monitor your condition daily and be honest with yourselves in the assessment. If you do this and are prepared for any possible developments you will do fine. No reason you should cancel your trip. Just my .02 cents.

 

[devon deer]

Update on my hunting companion.
I have not walked with him since he had the problems.
Since then he has been walking 2-3 times a week and up to 6 miles.
I walked with him last weekend, full pack, some flat, some very steep hills, 11 miles in all.
He is fine on the flat, in fact i have trouble keeping up with him, when we hit the steep bits he still flags a little but has improved a lot, so as long as we dont treat it as a race i think we will be ok.
But then there is the elevation, i have been ok in the past up to 14,000' but who know's, i might struggle this time, we won't know that until we get over.
Cheers
Richard

 

[Khunter]

He truly sounds keen as mustard for the hunt givn the continued effort You guys will have a great trip. You do not have to be the first guy o the op of the mountain o be successul...

 

[devon deer]

Oh crap, i spoke too soon.
We went on a planned 2 day 40 mile hike with the pack weighing in at 36lb.
4 of us went, a 23 year old, myself and non hunting buddy (both never smoked and 52 years old) and my ex-smoking hunting buddy, 49 years old.
We got 3 miles into the walk and we had to send the 23 year old back to find him in the fog, same problem, dizzy and lips turned blue, he recovered after 15 minutes.
Then i noticed after 10 miles (struggling again) he was on his phone, we only cross 2 roads on this hike, and when we crossed the road at mile 14 his wife was waiting and she took him home.
Next day he welcomed us in at the end of the hike saying his problem was the heavy back pack.
I really want him to go with me as he is good company but i am now really getting worried it could hold me back and reduce my chances, i just don't know what to do.
Cheers
Richard

 

[mixedbag]

To be honest, I wouldn't ever hunt in elevation with this guy till he sees a Dr!!!!If his lips turn blue that can't be good and when you get to Mt. out in the wilderness,there won't be a Dr. anywhere close by.Sounds like a news story waiting to happen
You could be pushing him too hard also.You don't need to be a tri-athlete to hunt elk.If he can do 6 miles a day with a pack everyday, he should be fine.I,myself, wouldn't do a 40 mile hike and would think your a little touched to be thinking thats necessary as my partner.Build up reasonable leg strength and cardio and you'll be fine.I can't tell you how many elk I walked past in Mt. last year trying to go deeper in the woods for camp.Get a mile or two in and you'll be fine,and lose alot of the crowd.Remember your elk hunting and not sheep or goat hunting.Don't get tunnel vision that you need to be so many miles in to have good hunting.If you kill your partner right off the bat,you'll be packing your elk solo
No matter, get that guy to see a Dr. before you go.You don't need your trip turning into a horror story for some reality TV show

 

[devon deer]

Sorry Mixedbag, i didnt make myself clear, this was a 'bucket list walk' its something we have always wanted to do, every year teams of teenagers walk over Dartmoor between 'tors' which are granite outcrops, they call it 'ten tors' we train with them prior to the challenge but only up to 15 miles.It wasn't meant to test my buddy, in fact i had't invited him along, he just invited himself and was confident he could complete it.
He is going back to the Drs later today.
I think it might be ok if we lower our sights a little.
I have taken on board your comments in relation to no Doctors in the wilderness, so hopefully no news item will happen as a result of our actions.
Cheers
Richard

 

[mixedbag]

I just wanted youto realize that you don't have to kill yourselves to have a good elk hunt.I was just joking when I stated I thought you were "touched";I didn't mean to offend.I'd be willing to help you with where I hunted in Mt. last year.You will have to be in good shape,but you will find all the elk you'll need to hunt within 2 miles of the truck.Enjoy your trip together,and go off on your own a little if he's hurtin.Sounds to me like your both ready for the hunt right now.Just don't push yourself or your partner too hard thinking thats what is necessary to kill an elkYour welcome to send me a pm if you want my advise on an area to give a try.realize I only hunted Mt. once but was able to find a ton of elk on my trip
Are you going gun or bow???If bowhunting, put alot of time into learning elk sounds and calling.I really do wish you guys a fun and successful trip.Your going to absolutely love Montana and its hunting