$1,149.84

Jamen · Mar 8, 2018

I guess your opinion and mine on capitalizing are different. I try to go bow hunting in the badlands every year for mule deer. I would rather spend $30 on a tag than the price of MT tag to drive 50 miles further west to hunt the same animal. If not I stick to home and go after whitetail. I hunt waterfowl every chance I get and upland birds. We have some of the best fishing around an hour in any direction from me. I do not need to hunt elk or moose every year to "capitalize". I take full advantage of what the state has to offer me and to me that is capitalizing. You are right I do not have a dog per say in the fight since I haven't hunted out of state as of yet. I do plan on making a few trips out west with a few buddies of mine in the future. We have been planning a hunt the last couple years just has not been feasible with people moving and having children. I do agree that out of state prices are spendy but that is what it has become.

The Hedgehog · Mar 8, 2018

I am glad to hear that people will squeal and whimper when taking a hard beating to the pocketbook.. to continue "capitalizing."

ida homer · Mar 8, 2018

I agree as stated above. The prices will continue to go up, unfortunately. Thanks to the internet, hunting is the cool thing to do now. It didn't used to be "cool" to hunt. If you bail, there will be 3 guys from internet forums behind you that will gladly buy your tag.

The price difference is crazy though. In ID, a sheep tag is $150-$200, but for NR's, I think it's about $2,200. That's pretty brutal.

300stw · Mar 8, 2018

i keep waiting for Montana to be undersubscribed for deer tags and let resident hunters buy them at non resident prices,,,, I will take one every year,,

805Bowhunter · Mar 8, 2018

twsnow18 said:
I agree as stated above. The prices will continue to go up, unfortunately. Thanks to the internet, hunting is the cool thing to do now. It didn't used to be "cool" to hunt. If you bail, there will be 3 guys from internet forums behind you that will gladly buy your tag.

The price difference is crazy though. In ID, a sheep tag is $150-$200, but for NR's, I think it's about $2,200. That's pretty brutal.

My parents still live in Southern California. I cannot tell you how "cool" hunting has become amongst people in this geographic region. "Hipster Hunters" and people looking to get back to their "roots" of hunting are unbelievable. I cannot tell you how many people applied out of state this year from Southern California. When I saw the Wyoming results and how many applicants there were, I literally in my head attributed it to what I have now deemed the "Southern California bump." Im sure that other large cities had a similar impact. While I dont have the data to support this, I cannot believe that people living in large cities who are just now finding hunting (and have a very good paying job to support applications out of state) are not dramatically impacting these numbers and licenses. Just wait until the Tesla's start showing up at your local trailheads.

The Hedgehog · Mar 8, 2018

There's an odd contrast to the tone of whimpering here, when compared to that of the "Yaaaaa - I drew Wyoming or Arizona just hit my credit card!" threads..

BuzzH · Mar 8, 2018

Greenhorn said:
There's an odd contrast to the tone of whimpering here, when compared to that of the "Yaaaaa - I drew Wyoming or Arizona just hit my credit card!" threads..

I wish people were more excited about drawing Montana than Wyoming...

Just about to send in my OTC Montana Native NR application...half price for a NR deer tag is still worth it, no whimpering from me.

cur dog · Mar 8, 2018

Buzz, why would anyone wimper about a half price license? I'm surprised they don't charge you double, as much as you bitch about Montana fish and game.

Whiptail · Mar 8, 2018

Big Fin said:
I wish it was different and that price was not a hurdle for many non-residents. Reality is, price is a hurdle, always has been and it probably always will be. I noticed that pain in 1989 when I started looking around at hunting in other states. Now, 30 years later, what the original post mentioned is still the case.

I know some may not like it when I put it this way, and it is in no way trying to discount that hunting out of state costs money. Yet, as expensive as it is to pay non-resident fees, I hope it is understood that most folks who are residents of these western states pay even more for their resident hunting opportunities, albeit in the form of opportunity costs. And I don't know many of them, myself included, who would move for higher paying positions in states with less hunting opportunity.

Here is an example of what I have paid for the privilege of being a resident of Montana and the great hunting and fishing opportunities that come with that residency, at great cost to wealth building. When I moved to Montana in 1991 to become a resident and all it has to offer, my wife was making $40K. She took a job in Bozeman for $14K, a bit over $2,000 per month for us to have resident hunting and fishing opportunities we desired. I won't even add what my hit was in leaving a great position with great potential at a national CPA firm to work for a small four-person CPA firm here in Bozeman.

I'm just one of thousands who have made that choice. I know many folks who turn down high paying jobs in other areas to stay in places like MT, WY, ID, etc. And yes, those are all personal decisions we make and we don't expect anyone to feel our pain. We would gladly do it again. Hopefully it gives some perspective of what a resident pays for hunting/fishing privileges when both cash and opportunity costs are considered.

When you take those huge pay disparities with really no reduction in cost of living, use even the lowest rates when determining the time value of money, over the life of working careers, what my wife and I have paid to be Montana residents is well over $2 million. And that is probably not much different for most others who have moved here, or elected to stay here and decline higher paying jobs elsewhere.

Again, not trying to discount the financial hurdles of hunting out of state. We all pay for that privilege one way or another. I hope you have a great hunt and I hope you are able to continue with these hunts until you "run out of health."

Do you think it's a good government policy to encourage people like you with cheap and plentiful hunting permits to live in places where they earn significantly less than their earning potential? With $20 trillion in government debt it seems like the government should incentivize everyone to earn as much as possible and thus pay more in taxes.

BuzzH · Mar 8, 2018

cur dog said:
Buzz, why would anyone wimper about a half price license? I'm surprised they don't charge you double, as much as you bitch about Montana fish and game.

Since even at half price, I pay 5-6 times more than a resident...I have the right to bitch all I want. Plus, since I've watched the hunting in Montana go to complete chit in my lifetime, even more well earned right to say the MTFWP has their head in the sand. The reality is, the past price I paid as a NR for a deer tag, $64, is probably more in line for what the FWP should be charging if value was related to management...

There is no way I would spend $1100 to hunt deer and elk there now...no way.

I could add an elk tag to my deer license for $135 more, and I wont even do that. Montana squanders more potential than exists in many states when it comes to elk...I'm not paying a red cent to support that BS.

Big Fin · Mar 8, 2018

Whiptail said:
Do you think it's a good government policy to encourage people like you with cheap and plentiful hunting permits to live in places where they earn significantly less than their earning potential? With $20 trillion in government debt it seems like the government should incentivize everyone to earn as much as possible and thus pay more in taxes.

Hmmm. Not sure I follow the logic. Maybe I understood the comment incorrectly, but I struggle to see lower priced resident hunting fees as a plank in the platform of governmental policy encouraging anything.

Didn't know that tag pricing and allocation was part of the incentives/encouragements driving governmental policy. I think the decision I made, and a decision many others have made, falls into the category of personal lifestyle decisions, freedoms, and liberties; or as Grampa would say, "I live in this country so I can do WTH I want, when I want, how I want, where I want."

None of the governmental agencies have enough incentives to get me to reduce my hunting and fishing options/access for more money. I, like most here and probably you, don't put dollar signs on the things that are my identity and my reasons for getting up in the morning.

Whiptail · Mar 8, 2018

Big Fin said:
Hmmm. Not sure I follow the logic. Maybe I understood the comment incorrectly, but I struggle to see lower priced resident hunting fees as a plank in the platform of governmental policy encouraging anything..

You said you and your wife have lost out on lots of earnings potential in exchange for "great hunting and fishing opportunities".

Big Fin said:
Here is an example of what I have paid for the privilege of being a resident of Montana and the great hunting and fishing opportunities that come with that residency, at great cost to wealth building. When I moved to Montana in 1991 to become a resident and all it has to offer, my wife was making $40K. She took a job in Bozeman for $14K, a bit over $2,000 per month for us to have resident hunting and fishing opportunities we desired. I won't even add what my hit was in leaving a great position with great potential at a national CPA firm to work for a small four-person CPA firm here in Bozeman.

Yes, tag pricing and permit allocations are government incentives, intentional or not.

Big Fin said:
Didn't know that tag pricing and allocation was part of the incentives/encouragements driving governmental policy.

None of the governmental agencies have enough incentives to get me to reduce my hunting and fishing options/access for more money.

Yes, but the government has encouraged you to give up some of your money making in exchange for increased hunting and fishing opportunities.

Would you consider keeping your hunting/fishing options AND making as much as your earnings potential? It's obvious you are willing to travel so I don't see that as an obstacle.

BuzzH · Mar 8, 2018

The government didn't encourage anything, it was a personal choice.

Like Fin, I wouldn't live in a place like Texas just because I could make as much as my earning potential...whatever that is.

Lot more to it than earning potential and money...and funny how you ignored what Fin posted, "I, like most here and probably you, don't put dollar signs on the things that are my identity and my reasons for getting up in the morning.

Cant say it better than that.

Big Fin · Mar 8, 2018

Whiptail said:
Yes, but the government has encouraged you to give up some of your money making in exchange for increased hunting and fishing opportunities.

The government hasn't encouraged me to do anything. I made that decision. My wife made that decision.

Whether we could have made more money or less money, we wanted to live in a place that has the lifestyle and community we desired. It happens we made a lot less money.

Maybe you don't mean it this way, but these comments come across as the currently typical American mantra of "someone is to blame for my situation" to imply somehow the government was responsible for our personal decision to move where we could live in a place that values hunting, fishing, public lands, access, and the things we love. Government has nothing to do with it. Randy and Kim are 100% responsible for the decision, a decision we wouldn't change for all the money in the world.

Whiptail said:
Would you consider keeping your hunting/fishing options AND making as much as your earnings potential? It's obvious you are willing to travel so I don't see that as an obstacle.

No, I wouldn't consider it if I had to live in a place with a different culture and societal dynamic I hear people complain about in other places. It is not just the hunting and fishing, though a huge part of that. That great hunting and fishing is a reflection of the conservation ethic that defines some places that attract hunters and anglers; an ethic that stretches from the landowners to the town people to the employers to the institutions to (insert here). It is also a place where my wife and I feel safe, vested, involved, and part of a community. It is also a place where you can disagree with people, yet still have a laugh with them after work.

Not sure what you're getting at, but I'm obviously missing it.

hank4elk · Mar 8, 2018

mike drop

Whiptail · Mar 8, 2018

Big Fin said:
Not sure what you're getting at, but I'm obviously missing it.

Thank you for the response. I was just asking questions about what you wrote and whether or not you think current government policies are a good idea. Every policy has intended and unintended consequences and it's interesting to hear different people's perspectives.

idahohuntr · Mar 8, 2018

Whiptail said:
Do you think it's a good government policy to encourage people like you with cheap and plentiful hunting permits to live in places where they earn significantly less than their earning potential? With $20 trillion in government debt it seems like the government should incentivize everyone to earn as much as possible and thus pay more in taxes.

I could come up with about a thousand ways to address national debt...none of them involve hunting license fees.

IEATELK · Mar 9, 2018

Well this escalated......... Shit its only money. Just work harder!

devon deer · Mar 9, 2018

Tjd said:
Well this escalated......... Shit its only money. Just work harder!

Nah, work smarter, and spend it wisely

Cheers
Richard

genesis273 · Mar 9, 2018

Am I the only nr guy who hunts on the Montana side of the MT/ID border with the logic "I'll hunt on the more expensive side of the line, know most nr hunters will be on the cheaper side"? I'll pay a little more, if my thinking is correct. Heck, I drive across the country to do it. When it gets to the point that I can't afford it, I'll stop going to MT.

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