Enough of This BS

Maybe the buffalo should be rounded up and hauled to Idaho and their treaty can thrive there. I Do think it's a bit odd how upsetting this is to Fwp when our elk season just finished a few weeks ago.
 
I wonder if I do that ancestry.com blood test I can get away with acting like a jack@$$, all I have to be is a 1/64 to be considered a tribe member.
 
Though it will never happen, the tribes need to abandon the portions of their treaties that allow their members to bypass Montana game seasons and regulations. If they don't, tensions are only going to get higher and higher.

My folks saw some pretty nutty things on Horse Butte while snowmobiling in West Yellowstone earlier this year. One of the bad things that comes from the tribes running roughshod in these areas is that the behavior and impacts of tribal hunters are attributed to hunters in general.
 
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My guess is nothing will ever change, MT should have never "invited" them over a few years ago to help reduce bison populations. Sadly what MT is seeing is common place in Idaho.
 
Eh, I used to care, I stopped caring when the MTFWP did.

The MTFWP is so hypocritical its almost a joke...cry about the Indians killing bison and elk, when they allow bison to be slaughtered by the Montana livestock department over fears of brucellosis. They slaughter elk via shoulder seasons, and give themselves a pat on the back for getting those pesky elk under control.

The Indians kill a few of each and their hypocritical hair is on fire...I just flat cant give a chit less. Moving closer to the FWP's vision of an elk-less Montana, get on with it.
 
Last year they shot rams off the side of the highway in front of tourists and one of them was left to waste, besides the head of course.

As for the elk, it's pretty disgusting the way they act, but I'm surprised at FWPs concern. When did they start caring?
 
The wasting of meat is horrible! Native members have been spearing the crap out of many walleye lakes in Wisconsin for many years, it for sure has a negative impact on numbers. Im guessing they do the same in Minnesota as well. I don't have a problem hunting those animals but the wasting of meat is unacceptable!!
 
BuzzH said:
The MTFWP is so hypocritical its almost a joke...cry about the Indians killing bison and elk, when they allow bison to be slaughtered by the Montana livestock department over fears of brucellosis. They slaughter elk via shoulder seasons, and give themselves a pat on the back for getting those pesky elk under control.
Click to expand...

The law states that the DOL will co-manage species in need of disease management. Nothing FWP can do about that. In order for that to change, you would have to repopulate the legislature with people willing to vote the old statute out while instituting new statutes that place the management of bison solely with the DFWP. Right now, we're about 100 votes shy of that (out of 150). We tried a bill this year that would allow for the movement of brucellosis exposed bison to quarantine facilities outside of the Designated Surveillance Area and we got shellacked 13-10.

When FWP tried to reduce bull harvest in 313, they were met with pitchforks and mobs of outfitters and locals who claimed that protecting the herd would cause undue financial harm on the rest of the Gardiner community. They were told that the herds were doing great, and that their bull counts were way off. Apparently, the wolves are lazy again and aren't eating all of the N. Yellowstone herd. Or they are. I guess it depends on which end of the bar you're talking.

When FWP went to LE permits for the 23 bundled districts in the breaks, and increased cow tags by 1,000, they were met with 4 sessions where outfitters tried to legislatively set seasons rather than work with the agency to increase harvest on leased ranches causing the overpopulation.

When FWP expresses concerns about the behavior of some tribal hunters, some conservationists point to the above to prove that FWP can't manage anything.
 
That's very sad. I thought Native Americans used more of the animal than most hunters? Have they abandoned that practice and now waste the meat like white people did before regulated hunting? Or are these just a few isolated incidents?
 
Ben, you mean when the FWP realized they had 2.3 bulls per 100 cows in 313? Some real visionaries there, that BTC ratio didn't happen over night.

The same FWP that used that same blurry vision to continue issuing a few thousand antlerless permits for cow elk around Gardiner even though the populations were taking a dive, at the same time wolf, lion, black and grizzly bear numbers were still climbing?

That FWP that is now out-raged over the Indians killing 30 elk near the park?

Seriously?

Maybe if the FWP actually starts basing their management on something other than their fictitious "data" (their "data") that has things like 53 bulls being killed from an "estimated" 45 it would be a good start to actually understanding WTF is going on? Yes?

Still trying to figure out how you kill 53 elk out of 45? Care to tackle that one Ben?

Browse through their numbers someday...its really something. Defend it if you can, or must...I'm not going to.

But, on the bright side, I did get a phone call from the MTFPW asking me about my NR deer combo license...they wanted to know how many grouse I shot this year. Good to see they still seem to "care" about grouse and ditch parrots. Oh, well, what? Not really, the last thing they ever changed was increasing opportunity by a month for those as well. You cant make this stuff up.

Didn't ask about deer though...another one that they didn't know they had, or will miss I suppose. Just one of those pesky whitetail bucks anyway.
 
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BuzzH said:
Eh, I used to care, I stopped caring when the MTFWP did.

The MTFWP is so hypocritical its almost a joke...cry about the Indians killing bison and elk, when they allow bison to be slaughtered by the Montana livestock department over fears of brucellosis. They slaughter elk via shoulder seasons, and give themselves a pat on the back for getting those pesky elk under control.

The Indians kill a few of each and their hypocritical hair is on fire...I just flat cant give a chit less. Moving closer to the FWP's vision of an elk-less Montana, get on with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks BuzzH for the insightful comments...

The-Dark-Knight-Alfred.jpg
 
Yeah I could never find cow to bull ratios? Would love the link to that if you have a moment. Also I did notice that around 2008 the MTFWP drastically decreased the elk objectives in many of the units you suggested... so it seems like it was a conscious effort to reduce herd size not a byproduct of poor regulation.

I find it interesting that will all the lawsuits with wolves and bears that organisations like the NRDC don't jump on this... seems like the best thing for MT wildlife in the area would be for one of the tribe members to kill a bear.
 
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beginnerhunter said:
That's very sad. I thought Native Americans used more of the animal than most hunters? Have they abandoned that practice and now waste the meat like white people did before regulated hunting? Or are these just a few isolated incidents?
Click to expand...

I'd say that's at best a myth. Sure their are some pretty traditional members of some tribes, but I'd say that's usually the exception.
 
Ben Lamb said:
When FWP expresses concerns about the behavior of some tribal hunters, some conservationists point to the above to prove that FWP can't manage anything.
Click to expand...

Another thing on this Ben...you cry about the FWP not being able to get anything done with elk management because they cant change the EMP, or the co-management of bison...but then you think they are being righteous in their "concern" over tribal hunters?

If they cant even get a grip on things like the EMP and make changes in regulation (which they essentially haven't done since 1954), I'd like for you to explain how they are going to do a single damn thing about tribal hunting near the Park? They cant tackle the EMP and set/change regulations, they cant stand up to the outfitters, the landowners, or the public...but they're going to challenge the Hellgate Treaty?

The FWP needs a truckload of smelling salts...
 
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