We are fighting the last war . . . .

VikingsGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
11,710
Location
Twin Cities
While the obvious TwitterX wedge issues are in full burn, we are fighting the last war - building battleships in 1935 at the expense of aircraft carriers so to speak.

Before I start - ask yourself - am I blue collar labor or white collar labor? A simple way to answer that question for the purposes of this discussion is, during covid did I have to leave my home to have employment and/or did I lose employment during lockdown windows? Or, was I able to work from home just fine in front of my laptop? If yes to the first then you are "blue collar" for the purposes of this discussion and if yes to the second, you are "white collar".

With that in mind, the "next war" for our political, social and economic landscape will be gen AI - and I don't mean for its obvious ability to foment chaos through deep fake video and audio. I mean a whole new group of voters that are going to be faced with the same problem skilled labor ("blue collar") faced in the late 80's early 90's. Back in the day our government (both parties) decided that "net good" was to on-board 1 billion Chinese dollar a day laborers into a free-trade environment and create clear economic incentives to off shore our industrial base. Sure jobs would be lost, but look at all the knock on benefits that will raise all boats and secure a large free democratic ally in China. Whoops. And immigration. Rather than fixing a broken system the government (both parties) decided it was better to leave it as a wedge issue than resolve and in the mean time unregulated borders and immigration flooded cheap labor into the building trades and service sector ("blue collar"), etc. Whoops. Both of these decisions gutted our work-class ("blue collar") ability to share in the American dream while enriching the "knowledge worker" ("white collar") who still was in high demand, hard to outsource and now flooded with cheap stuff to buy with their growing incomes.

Now, we sit on the tipping point of genAI - how will we address the front end of the decimation of the day to day "white collar" worker. Sure the very top 1% of white collar won't be replaceable and will likely reap great economic benefits, but when the third of or workforce that benefited from decimation of the "blue collar" dreams over the last 30 years is now in the crosshairs how will this play out? Will they demand government protections? Will they demand better social safety net for themselves that they were so reluctant to provide the blue collar folks? Which party will they flow towards? Will skill labor replace them in the social/economic pecking order, as AI doesn't build roads or skyscrapers? Or will now 90% of our population feel left out? And if so does that lead to real revolution? And would that revolution be won by a right wing strongman to force "order" on the system without fixing it or would it be a leftist revolution that tries to redesign post-AI capitalism/socialism in a way to force the spread of the benefits across the whole?

The amount of disruption looming over the next 30 years will make arguing about the current social wedge issues seem quaint in hindsight, as I believe "white collar" America is about to enter the gauntlet we forced blue collar Americans though in the 90s. Hold on to your hats folks.
 
Last edited:
Really interesting post, Vikingsguy- this stuff is fun and scary to think about at the same time. But it’s coming in some form to be sure.

I believe "white collar" America is about to enter the gauntlet we forced blue collar American though in the 90s.

This may in fact be true. One difference that I see, however, is the fluidity to go from white to blue is probably greater than it was for people to go from blue to white (obviously just an opinion). This might lead to this scenario being a net positive overall, albeit painful for people while they adapt.
 
Last edited:
I don't know the answer, but I believe it will interact with another cultural phenomenon, the widening of the achievement gap between girls and boys, and exacerbate some of the tension building there. Girls are making up a higher and higher percentage of those getting advanced degrees, they are also getting more and more politically liberal. They are thriving in many ways (though things have not quite caught up for women of my generation and older). Boys seem to be struggling in many ways related to work and school and are getting more politically conservative, on average. I think this gap between the genders will only be widened by the pressures you speak of.
 
I don't know the answer, but I believe it will interact with another cultural phenomenon, the widening of the achievement gap between girls and boys, and exacerbate some of the tension building there. Girls are making up a higher and higher percentage of those getting advanced degrees, they are also getting more and more politically liberal. They are thriving in many ways (though things have not quite caught up for women of my generation and older). Boys seem to be struggling in many ways related to work and school and are getting more politically conservative, on average. I think this gap between the genders will only be widened by the pressures you speak of.
Good points. Interestingly, GenAI may replace a bunch of jobs college educated women are thriving in and put more value on non-college skilled labor where some of these young men have thrived historically. (not to say woman can't filled skilled labor, just speaking in broad generalities)
 
Good points. Interestingly, GenAI may replace a bunch of jobs college educated women are thriving in and put more value on non-college skilled labor where some of these young men have thrived historically. (not to say woman can't filled skilled labor, just speaking in broad generalities)
Could be... However, my gut says that any white-collar purge will hit men harder (on average, not necessarily in the corner offices).
 
This ship sailed away into the sunset years ago. When the Supreme Court gave corporations the Equal Protection Clause and the Contracts Clause. Humans became cannon fodder in the quest to put all the pie on a smaller and smaller table.
Has absolutely nothing to do with it. Can we at least get a page or two on the posted topic before we derail with a red herring. If you want to post your CU thoughts in another thread, I am happy to respond to that.
 
Dont think AI will take many high profile white collar jobs in the near future. AI will be around to do lower end jobs in a white color enviroment secretary, file management, "I.T. help desk" and/or any other tasks that are repitive and low demand for creativity. It reminds me of a boomer engineer at a prior company that was convinced software was going to take a bunch of engineering jobs.

It cant give a rich person tax advice based on a specfic question and experience. It cant make an updated design with confused feedback from the client. It cant sell anything with any level of personlization and relation. It cant really see the difference between the context of words - like intpreting code vs code commentary. It doesnt develop a relationship with clients or companies to continue doing business.

Sort of similarily - it wont take anyones lineman job. Or plumbing job. Or anything that requires a physical inpretation of something and judgement like that. It might automate lower end labor out of work - just like original automation. Like running a vibratory compactor on a road construction project
 
A younger guy (white collar) that my wife works with was saying recently that AI was great. It would make it so no one would have to work, and everyone would get paid a monthly stipend. He's from Sweden, and already indoctrinated into socialism, so take it for what it's worth.
The classic white collar blind spot - ignoring someone has to take out the trash and someone has to fix the leak in the roof. I have had to remind many whiny white collar folks griping about coming back into the office that our collegues who actually made essential products for this country during covid had to do so shoulder to shoulder before we had a vaccine. Even if the swede doesn't want to code any more (or whatever he does) how does a system work where he does nothing and gets a check, but the kid next door does the backbreaking job of shingling houses.
 
Dont think AI will take many high profile white collar jobs in the near future. AI will be around to do lower end jobs in a white color enviroment secretary, file management, "I.T. help desk" and/or any other tasks that are repitive and low demand for creativity. It reminds me of a boomer engineer at a prior company that was convinced software was going to take a bunch of engineering jobs.

It cant give a rich person tax advice based on a specfic question and experience. It cant make an updated design with confused feedback from the client. It cant sell anything with any level of personlization and relation. It cant really see the difference between the context of words - like intpreting code vs code commentary. It doesnt develop a relationship with clients or companies to continue doing business.

Sort of similarily - it wont take anyones lineman job. Or plumbing job. Or anything that requires a physical inpretation of something and judgement like that. It might automate lower end labor out of work - just like original automation. Like running a vibratory compactor on a road construction project
I agree and maybe my numbers are off, but even if 25% of white collar workers in accounting, IT, administrative, legal, etc lost their jobs you are talking tens of millions of pissed off workers. Just like off shoring didn't kill all skilled labor jobs (and likely not even a majority of then) are social and economic systems are very sensitive to major change - and cutting the "lower skilled" of the "white collar" world would still likely be as disruptive of the shrinking of mainstream manufacturing 20 years ago.
 
The classic white collar blind spot - ignoring someone has to take out the trash and someone has to fix the leak in the roof. I have had to remind many whiny white collar folks griping about coming back into the office that our collegues who actually made essential products for this country during covid had to do so shoulder to shoulder before we had a vaccine. Even if the swede doesn't want to code any more (or whatever he does) how does a system work where he does nothing and gets a check, but the kid next door does the backbreaking job of shingling houses.
Post doc disease research. More education doesn't always make one smarter.
 
I agree and maybe my numbers are off, but even if 25% of white collar workers in accounting, IT, administrative, legal, etc lost their jobs you are talking tens of millions of pissed off workers. Just like off shoring didn't kill all skilled labor jobs (and likely not even a majority of then) are social and economic systems are very sensitive to major change - and cutting the "lower skilled" of the "white collar" world would still likely be as disruptive of the shrinking of mainstream manufacturing 20 years ago.
Thats my point. In my scenario accounting, legal, and a lot of I.T. dont lose their jobs.
 
A younger guy (white collar) that my wife works with was saying recently that AI was great. It would make it so no one would have to work, and everyone would get paid a monthly stipend. He's from Sweden, and already indoctrinated into socialism, so take it for what it's worth.

I read a really interesting book recently, The Almost Nearly Perfect People: Behind the Myth of the Scandinavian Utopia. The successes and failures of their socialist systems are not quite what everyone has been led to believe.
 
Use Promo Code Randy for 20% off OutdoorClass

Forum statistics

Threads
111,146
Messages
1,948,767
Members
35,052
Latest member
JMD
Back
Top