Setting up muzzleloader, need help

[huntin' lunatic]

Bought a brand new T/C Encore Pro Hunter, .50 cal. I hunt the Big Thicket in Texas which allows only slug, shotgun, and muzzleloader hunting, plus my county has a 2 week late season. I am going to put a Bushnell DOA 250 on it, was told to use the Jim Shockey's Gold compressed charges. Which you use one instead of 3. Shock Wave Super Glide sabots. Now, to sight it in. I called my gunsmith and he does not bore sight. Do I need to boresight? How much eye relief do I need on the scope and should I start sighing it in at 25 yds? After how many shots, during sight in, do I clean it? I sure could use all the advice out there. Never shot one. thanks

 

[mohunter]

Just went through the same thing with an endevour barrel i put on my encore. Ishot 2 pellets of triple seven and a 250 shockwave with great results. My gun did need to be very clean to get good accuracy though. I used the seasoning patches to clean between shots and it did very well. It shot horrible when it was dirty. I would start at 25 to get on paper and then go from there. you could get lucky at 100 but more than likely will just waste bullets. once you are close at 25 you should be able to move to 100 and be on paper. As far as eye relief i am not real sure as my gun barely kicks with only 100 grains of powder and the light shockwave. Good luck

 

[JB]

mount your scope. find a 100 yrd range to shoot at. remove breech plug and with the barrel in the open position put in a shooting vise. see if you are one paper at 100 yrds by looking through the barrel and the scope.......adjust scope until both the scope and looking through the barrel are on paper. shoot and make final adjustments....should be good to go within 6 shots.

no need to clean between shots(within reason). once you are happy with the groups you are getting remove the breech plug and clean the barrel where it shines like a new penny......reinstall breech plug and shoot again to make sure you are still dead on, reload and go hunting. never go hunting with a super clean barrel, always do one shot before the hunt to make sure you are on. the load in the barrel will be good until the animal is on the ground....could be two weeks later if thats what it takes.(super damp locations you might want to reload before each hunt)

eye relief is dictated by the scope....you mount the scope where you are comfortable in you natural shooting position and have a full sight picture. dont try to turkey neck it, just mount it where you are comfortable.

IMHO, 100 gr. charge is all you need.....less kick and better accuracy.

 

[Fish]

My friends and i typicall shot 3, 50gr pellets, and 1 friend 2 pellets w 250 shock waves or SST. I would start at 25, get it close then move out. You can look throught the barrel and move the scope to the center at 25 if you want. I usually clean it every 2-3 shoots, think the max i have put through it without cleaning it is 4. Accuracy starts to suffer on the 3 shot and 4th worse for me. You will notice it gets tougher to get the bullet properly seated with each shot. Recommend you mark you rod with white out/ tape to know when it is seated all the way. The t-rods and palm grips for pushing the rod really help in cold weather. When you clean it, LUBE the breech plug. I just run wet patches through it at the range. Lube it heavily, you will pay for it if you don't. Have seen it done too many times, go with the big tube of breech grease. You will also notice a difference in the ease of sabot to load, the thinner plastic or super glides are much nicer. Your scope has 3.5 inches of eye relief, you should be good. Think that about covers it. good luck, Fish

 

[mohunter]

With my original muzzle loader i could shoot dirty in fact it shot better when it was a little dirty. After putting my barrel on my gun this year and heading to the range with the same mentality i went through a lot of shots and loads trying to find a load my gun liked. After talking to another person i went back to the range and shot and cleaned between each shot. To clean i ran a seasoned patch or a patch with tcs bore butter through the barrel 10 times and then used a dry patch and ran it through a the barrel 10 times. I never removed the bore plug until i got home. The patches were coming out pretty clean by the time i got done each time. Never had to do this with a muzzle loader in the past but this cleaning turned my groups from 3 to 4 inches to under an inch. Just letting you know a porblem i wasted alot of bullets.

 

[Bambistew]

. JB gave you great advice on sighting in. That’s the way I do it with all rifles, no need to bore sight.

I shoot 90-100gr of loose powder and 460gr No Excuses conicals. The heavier the bullet the higher pressures you'll get with less powder, with the light bullets you intend to shoot you could up the charge a little, but I’ve found that 100 grains is more than enough for any bullet. I've tried all sorts of loads and bullets with a million different powder combinations and found that once you get over about 115-120 grains you're really just wasting powder and the velocity you gain is negligible. Just because you stuff the powder down the barrel doesn't mean that it will burn when you fire it.

Personally I think primers are probably the most critical part of a set up. Make sure you get the ones designed for black powder. Regular 209's have too much 'power' and will unseat your charge slightly just before it has a chance to ignite. In the end it will play hell with your groups. It took me a year or two to figure this out.

I'm NOT a fan of Shockey's Gold, the main reason is that it’s probably the slowest burning black powder substitute made consequently you have to use more powder to get similar velocities, and you’ll get to the point of diminishing returns. Like mentioned above most of that was being blown out of the barrel. Groups suffered and it leaves a sticky gum like residue with the blow back around the nipple. It does burn very clean and I could get 8-10 shots between running a patch but groups were marginal. The 4 cans of it I tried all did the same thing, once opened you better use it in the next month or less. It sucks in moisture and will turn to a solid chunk of useless powder.

I plan on making the switch over to Blackhorn this winter. It supposedly will eliminate all issues associated with black powder substitutes as well as corrosion.

As far as cleaning and fouling. I shoot 2 caps to 'foul' a barrel. I never shoot a black powder load to foul unless I plan on cleaning it that day. It will start pitting and corroding your barrel if you leave it fouled for much longer than 24hours. Not fun to run a patch and see rust come out. Primers are non corrosive so the fouling won't hurt and it seems to put enough ‘dirt’ in the barrel to make things play nice. Like JB said once you load it will be fine until you fire it, sometimes weeks later as long as it doesn't get moisture down the barrel somehow.

Bore butter is made for old school BP rifles. New rifles have very clean cut barrels and the ‘lube’ is just another process to include in an already tedious process. It can also cause corrosion problems if you ‘season’ a dirty barrel. There is a product out there call Ultra Bore Coat that I plan on playing with this winter as well. I think it’s a ceramic polymer that when heated up will cure in your barrel creating a supper slick micro film, which will aid in loading as well as cleaning. I guess it will virtually eliminate the ‘crud ring’ associated with 777 powder.

Everyone has their own sequence of firing and loading. Personally, I've only got to fire a single follow up shot maybe 25% of the time. So when I go to the range I typically load and fire just as it would be under field conditions. I don’t care what shots 3-10 do on a fouled barrel. I’m not going to sight my rifle in to them, and I’ll never get to shoot that many time unless I get pinned down in a prarie dog town or something?

My sequence from a clean barrel is this.

Fire 2 caps
Run a dry patch
load
fire
reload
fire
reload
fire
check group

I then squirt some Windex on a patch (or have pre soaked patches), run it down, flip it over run it down again, then dry patches until they come out clean. Then do it again. The second time will usually be squeaky clean much like a fresh barrel would be. Then start over the loading sequence. The second time around should print in nearly the same area. If so I’ll adjust the sights. I’ll tear it down and clean it up to being spotless, then run through the sequence again and see where it prints. Hopefully in the same area.

If the group isn't satisfactory, I'll play with the charge, and/or primer set up. If I can get a 2" ish group at 100 yards I call it good. I'm not shooting a BP rifle because want a 'high score' I shoot it because I want to hunt with it. Even at 200 yards that’s only 4” group… I don’t shoot much over 100 yards anyway and the kill zone is pretty big on most animals.

Black powder is addicting, or has been for me.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[mohunter]

The windex sounds like a great idea. I will give it a try next time at the range. I know this isn't my post but thanks for alot of helpful info.

 

[schmalts]

I don't clean every shot but I do a "spit patch" or a moistened patch with water, followed by 2 dry patches after every shot. It will keep the barrel clean, and consistent for as many shots as you want to do until your shoulder cannot take it. And since it is just a wet patch, it only takes about a minute to do the whole thing rather than the long time to actually do a thorough cleaning when it is fouled. When you put the wet patch down with the jag you will feel the crud at the bottom couple inches by the breech. Just work that area until it feels smooth and then the 2 dry patches. This way every shot, no matter how many will be the same.
At the end of the day you still have to do a proper cleaning though, even a stainless TC will rust if you don't... Don't ask me how i know this

 

[huntin' lunatic]

You all are awesome

Got my scope mounted tonite so I will try and get to the range this weekend. Going hunting saturday first. Keep the advise coming. thanks

 

[JB]

I plan on making the switch over to Blackhorn this winter. It supposedly will eliminate all issues associated with black powder substitutes as well as corrosion.

plan on doing that next season myself.

curious as to how long before other companys will be able to make the cylindrical pellet form that trip 7/pyrodex currently holds the patent on.
anyone?

 

[Bambistew]

I'm more currious to see what other companies will come up with powder similar to Blackhorn and help them be a little more competitive on price.