Here comes the next round of lawsuits!

[shoots-straight]

I think Idaho just gave the serial litigationists their next paycheck.

Tragedy for wolves in Idaho​

​

Yesterday, Governor Otter signed a death warrant for a majority of wolves in Idaho.​

​

Help us fight tooth and nail to stop the virtual death warrant for hundreds of Idaho wolves!​

Dear Robert,​

I am writing with sad news.
​

Despite heroic efforts by people like you, yesterday, Idaho’s governor signed a virtual death warrant for hundreds of the state’s wolves.
​

The new law, HB470, establishes a $400,000 special fund, the sole purpose of which is killing as many wolves as possible. It is part of a broader effort by wolf-haters to reduce Idaho’s wolf population down to 150 animals – which means killing more than 450 wolves.
​

With your help we’re going to fight tooth and nail to stop this despicable plan. Please donate – for Idaho’s wolves and to protect wildlife wherever it is endangered.
​

We cannot leave any stone unturned in our fight to protect wolves. ​

• Our legal team is assessing options.
  
  
• Our field staff is gearing up for the fight of their lives and are mobilizing other residents of Idaho to push back on this terrible proposal.
  
  
• Here in Washington, D.C., we’re using this as Exhibit A with the Department of the Interior as proof of what we’ve been saying along – when wolves lose protection they die.

We’re not giving up. Not by a long shot.
​

Thanks for being there in these tough times.​

Sincerely,​

Jamie Rappaport Clark
President
Defenders of Wildlife​

 

[drahthaar]

As long as mt isnt tied to it. Still have two more years of fed oversight yes? Just keep doing what we are doing at get out from under fed oversight I say. Dont something drastic to get them relisted.

 

[LCH]

Gotta love how they deceitfully through the word "endangered " in there...

 

[WyOpitz]

Here's your sign... "Here in Washington DC". I love how people in Washington know what's best for those that live in Idaho. Idiots!

 

[npaden]

Just like everything else, most of this is pretty much a lie.

Here's the actual law that passed.

http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2014/H0470.pdf

The way I'm reading it there is an assessment on livestock producers that will fund the removal of depredating wolves and if the assessment doesn't make $110,000 per year the state will make up the difference. It's good for four years so I guess that's how they get the $400,000.

At the current costs that they are incurring for wolf removal (over $1,000 per wolf for the aerial stuff) they aren't going to get very many wolves killed for $110,000 a year. For sure not 500.

 

[nidahunter]

In their own words- "get the population down to 150".....you mean the # you originally agreed to that would be sufficient in the state? Nothing but a bunch of hippocrits.

 

[ida homer]

Just like everything else, most of this is pretty much a lie.

Here's the actual law that passed.

http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2014/H0470.pdf

The way I'm reading it there is an assessment on livestock producers that will fund the removal of depredating wolves and if the assessment doesn't make $110,000 per year the state will make up the difference. It's good for four years so I guess that's how they get the $400,000.

At the current costs that they are incurring for wolf removal (over $1,000 per wolf for the aerial stuff) they aren't going to get very many wolves killed for $110,000 a year. For sure not 500.

You hit the nail on the head. They just don't understand that even if we wanted to we couldn't kill them all off in a year or two, not a chance. I think this year they spent like 18 grand to fund the trapper that they put up in that USFS cabin. He got 8 or 9 at the start then went a few weeks without even seeing sign.

 

[idnative1948]

twsnow,
And you are also right on the money also (pun)

You hit the nail on the head. They just don't understand that even if we wanted to we couldn't kill them all off in a year or two, not a chance. I think this year they spent like 18 grand to fund the trapper that they put up in that USFS cabin. He got 8 or 9 at the start then went a few weeks without even seeing sign.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The key will be if ID altered the USFWS approved plan enough to warrant a review. That, and the 10/150 is a bottom line. If the numbers drop below that, then a review is warranted.

Thirdly, the genetic connectivity issue was never litigated. The science behind that shows an interconnected population at a much higher level. One of the benchmarks for delisting was the genetic connectivity.

And MT is tied to ID whether we like it or not. That's how the rider was written: ID & MT are tied to together under the 2009 delisting rule, which left WY out.

It will be interesting, and I would hope that folks see the problem in managing a large carnivore with a huge fan base for bottom numbers with no room for error will be problematic for all hunters.

 

[jryoung]

The key will be if ID altered the USFWS approved plan enough to warrant a review. That, and the 10/150 is a bottom line. If the numbers drop below that, then a review is warranted.

Thirdly, the genetic connectivity issue was never litigated. The science behind that shows an interconnected population at a much higher level. One of the benchmarks for delisting was the genetic connectivity.

And MT is tied to ID whether we like it or not. That's how the rider was written: ID & MT are tied to together under the 2009 delisting rule, which left WY out.

It will be interesting, and I would hope that folks see the problem in managing a large carnivore with a huge fan base for bottom numbers with no room for error will be problematic for all hunters.

Sooooooo, Idaho is basically going to eff it all up for us?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Sooooooo, Idaho is basically going to eff it all up for us?

Possibly.

 

[sweetnectar]

Thank you npaden

 

[spook12]

Would one of you guys in the know explain ''genetic connectivity''?

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Would one of you guys in the know explain ''genetic connectivity''?

It means that you don't end up with isolated island populations that never get any new genetics into the population, i.e. inbreeding.

There has to be enough animals that they disperse and create genetic interchange between core population areas.

I thought of including an Arkansas joke, but that wouldn't be nice.:W:

 

[smarandr]

Well the DOW really knows how to spin it. I always thought HB 470 was about replacing lost federal dollars when it came to wolf depredation. Silly me.

The Idaho Sportsman’s Caucus Advisory Council (ISCAC) supports HB 470.

ISCAC supports HB 470 to provide for support to science and biological game managed by the Idaho Fish and Game Departmen. HB 470 replaces financial aid no longer provided by the Federal Government to manage wolves. ISCAC supports HB 470 for the science and biological management of the wolves that are the responsibility of the IDF&G. ISCAC believes the public, sportsmen and ranchers should share equally in the financial costs of the wolf management program.

Again, ISCAC supports HB 470.

 

[spook12]

It means that you don't end up with isolated island populations that never get any new genetics into the population, i.e. inbreeding.

There has to be enough animals that they disperse and create genetic interchange between core population areas.

I thought of including an Arkansas joke, but that wouldn't be nice.:W:

I'm thick skinned,let'em rip.

Haven't there been a couple documented cases in the last few years of wolves dispersing hundreds of miles? Wasn't there a young male Idaho wolf who went ''Looking for love'' all over North California? Wasn't there a young wolf from the GY, run over on a Reservation in South Dakota?
''Genetic connectivity'' sound like one of those terms that would get you a hundred different definitions from a hundred different experts.

 

[Ben Lamb]

''Genetic connectivity'' sound like one of those terms that would get you a hundred different definitions from a hundred different experts.

Yep. But the only definition that matters is the one the judge will go with.

The Hebbewhite study is the one that seems to best define when genetic connectivity was reached and what the population was at the time.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-294X.2010.04770.x/full

The moral question we need to ask ourselves is if we allow wolves to managed for basement numbers, what's the next species? (Looking at the brucellosis infected elk).

 

[cowboy]

The moral question we need to ask ourselves is if we allow wolves to managed for basement numbers, what's the next species? (Looking at the brucellosis infected elk).

If you think that Idaho is going to even approach "basement numbers" because of this, then I would guess Idaho's wolves are a lot dumber than the ones we have here in Montana. Time will tell.

If you are not in favor of this than what do you propose as an alternative method to lower the wolf population.

 

[spook12]

Thanks for the link Ben.

I'm betting that the management of Wolves (like most all Wildlife) will continue to be based on social pressure. Science be Damned.

 

[idnative1948]

Let the huggers pay to spay and neuter? How long would that take???????

If you think that Idaho is going to even approach "basement numbers" because of this, then I would guess Idaho's wolves are a lot dumber than the ones we have here in Montana. Time will tell.

If you are not in favor of this than what do you propose as an alternative method to lower the wolf population.