Gastro Gnome - Eat Better Wherever

Here comes the next round of lawsuits!

If you think that Idaho is going to even approach "basement numbers" because of this, then I would guess Idaho's wolves are a lot dumber than the ones we have here in Montana. Time will tell.

If you are not in favor of this than what do you propose as an alternative method to lower the wolf population.

Hasn't the wolf population drop consistently year after year since state management was permitted? Given Idaho has offered up everything but the kitchen sink this year for "wolf management" it's pretty clear they are motivated to try and get to the bottom.

It seems though, that the use of hunters and trappers is working, and should continue to work....besides with all the elk dead they gotta be out of food at some point ;)
 
Hasn't the wolf population drop consistently year after year since state management was permitted? Given Idaho has offered up everything but the kitchen sink this year for "wolf management" it's pretty clear they are motivated to try and get to the bottom.

It seems though, that the use of hunters and trappers is working, and should continue to work....besides with all the elk dead they gotta be out of food at some point ;)

The official rate is 11% reduction each year.

This bill is a waste of money to support Wildlife Services. The money will be used for fuel, salary, etc. and will result in less than 50 wolves killed by the board money.

IDF&G could have achieved the same goal by eliminating the individual hunter limit of 5. There are guys who spend all their time to kill wolves and going from 5 to 20 wouldn't be hard for them. Net increase in revenue for IDF&G instead of $110k loss.
 
The official rate is 11% reduction each year.

This bill is a waste of money to support Wildlife Services. The money will be used for fuel, salary, etc. and will result in less than 50 wolves killed by the board money.

IDF&G could have achieved the same goal by eliminating the individual hunter limit of 5. There are guys who spend all their time to kill wolves and going from 5 to 20 wouldn't be hard for them. Net increase in revenue for IDF&G instead of $110k loss.
IIRC the main goal of the ID legislature is to divert as much IDF&G money as possible to predator management lest it be used to destroy cattle habitat for the benefit of elk and deer. So mission accomplished once again.
 
If you think that Idaho is going to even approach "basement numbers" because of this, then I would guess Idaho's wolves are a lot dumber than the ones we have here in Montana. Time will tell.

If you are not in favor of this than what do you propose as an alternative method to lower the wolf population.

Between the helicopter gun ships, gov't trappers, snaring and incredibly liberal limits, it's safe to say Idaho has gone too far too fast. We know that wolves are resilient and that they can handle some pretty aggresive management strategies due to reproductive rates, etc, but we're not paying much attention to pack dynamics, and how wolves actually live (as opposed to elk, deer, etc). Idaho simply went too far too fast.

The MT model is showing that you can incrementally change the way you manage wolves, so long as you stay within the accepted plan. We are reducing the MT population through a tightly managed regime of trapping and fair chase hunting. Maybe MT hunters and trappers are just better than ID? ;)

If it were up to me, I'd slow it down. Considerably. I'd also not willingly give the Obama administration a pass on funding wildlife services.
 
Between the helicopter gun ships, gov't trappers, snaring and incredibly liberal limits, it's safe to say Idaho has gone too far too fast. We know that wolves are resilient and that they can handle some pretty aggresive management strategies due to reproductive rates, etc, but we're not paying much attention to pack dynamics, and how wolves actually live (as opposed to elk, deer, etc). Idaho simply went too far too fast.

The MT model is showing that you can incrementally change the way you manage wolves, so long as you stay within the accepted plan. We are reducing the MT population through a tightly managed regime of trapping and fair chase hunting. Maybe MT hunters and trappers are just better than ID? ;)

If it were up to me, I'd slow it down. Considerably. I'd also not willingly give the Obama administration a pass on funding wildlife services.


But we have to keep our reputation as the reddest of red states--consequences be damned.
 
Between the helicopter gun ships, gov't trappers, snaring and incredibly liberal limits, it's safe to say Idaho has gone too far too fast. We know that wolves are resilient and that they can handle some pretty aggresive management strategies due to reproductive rates, etc, but we're not paying much attention to pack dynamics, and how wolves actually live (as opposed to elk, deer, etc). Idaho simply went too far too fast.

I'd disagree. Wolf management has been part of it's elk management plan for several years (right or wrong). IDF&G has simply started implementing the plan more aggressively this year. ID has been heli gunning wolves and killing packs for years staring with Carter Niemeyer.

I think the official wolf number is 600 right now, which will be closer to 750-850 by late summer. Next year after heli gunning, trapping, hunting and having Wildlife Services chase packs near livestock, the number will likely be between 450-500, well above the minimal number.

This is a big fuss about nothing as long as ID remains above the minimum numbers.
 
I'd disagree. Wolf management has been part of it's elk management plan for several years (right or wrong). IDF&G has simply started implementing the plan more aggressively this year. ID has been heli gunning wolves and killing packs for years staring with Carter Niemeyer.

I think the official wolf number is 600 right now, which will be closer to 750-850 by late summer. Next year after heli gunning, trapping, hunting and having Wildlife Services chase packs near livestock, the number will likely be between 450-500, well above the minimal number.

This is a big fuss about nothing as long as ID remains above the minimum numbers.

There is a big difference between management actions taken by agencies when a species is listed, and the aggressiveness post delisting.

Again, the minimum numbers thing is only one of 3 or 4 parts of the equation. You have to keep your plan until the review period is over and, where the enviros are going to make their case, is that the new idaho rules, laws, etc, will negatively affect genetic connectivity.

As I said, that's the one area that Molloy never ruled on, so it's still fair game from a legal standpoint. If I were Idaho, I wouldn't run that risk just yet.
 
You know more about this than me, Ben. I'm personally tired of the wolf situation in general. Too much limited time and funding is being spent on the issue.
 
I'd disagree. Wolf management has been part of it's elk management plan for several years (right or wrong). IDF&G has simply started implementing the plan more aggressively this year. ID has been heli gunning wolves and killing packs for years staring with Carter Niemeyer.

I think the official wolf number is 600 right now, which will be closer to 750-850 by late summer. Next year after heli gunning, trapping, hunting and having Wildlife Services chase packs near livestock, the number will likely be between 450-500, well above the minimal number.

This is a big fuss about nothing as long as ID remains above the minimum numbers.
I agree with you brymoore.

The only problem is the antis can find lawyer's that are smarter than the judges who will inevitably decide on this.
 
You know more about this than me, Ben. I'm personally tired of the wolf situation in general. Too much limited time and funding is being spent on the issue.

I very well could be wrong. I absolutely agree with you though. I'm tired of it too.
 
We all might be tired of the wolf debacle, but that doesn't mean the fight is over. It will take constant maintenance to keep this thing from going to far one direction or the other.

Hopefully the waters will calm down someday.

Dear Robert,​
Idaho has gone too far with their endless assaults on wolves.
Less than five years after losing federal protection, it is clearer than ever that the state refuses to manage its wolf population responsibly.
That’s why today, Defenders of Wildlife officially requested that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) immediately initiate a status review of wolves in the Northern Rockies and examine the relentless threats that this species has encountered since being stripped of Endangered Species Act protection back in 2011.
The call for this status review is the first step toward restoring Endangered Species Act protection to wolves in Idaho and other Northern Rockies states.
Instead of managing their wolves like other wildlife, the state of Idaho has declared war on them.
In the less than three years since Congress stripped Idaho’s wolves of protection, the state has:


  • Used aerial gunning to wipe out entire packs, including those on national forest lands, to artificially boost elk populations;
  • Allowed hunting of wolves every day of the year;
  • Doubled the number of wolves that could be trapped or snared from five to ten;
  • Sent a professional trapper to eliminate two packs of wolves in a federal wilderness area;
  • Has proposed killing 60 percent of the remaining wolves in the Frank Church Wilderness; and
  • Recently passed HB470 into law setting aside an annual amount of $400,000 for the sole purpose of killing as many wolves as possible.
The Governor of Idaho has made no secret of his intention to reduce the state's wolf population to 150 animals or less – which would require initially killing more than 450 wolves and their young as more are born.
We warned this would happen – when federal protections are removed, wolves die.
Sincerely,
27379.jpg
Jamie Rappaport Clark
President
Defenders of Wildlife
 
We all might be tired of the wolf debacle, but that doesn't mean the fight is over. It will take constant maintenance to keep this thing from going to far one direction or the other.

Hopefully the waters will calm down someday.

Dear Robert,​
Idaho has gone too far with their endless assaults on wolves.
Less than five years after losing federal protection, it is clearer than ever that the state refuses to manage its wolf population responsibly.
That’s why today, Defenders of Wildlife officially requested that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) immediately initiate a status review of wolves in the Northern Rockies and examine the relentless threats that this species has encountered since being stripped of Endangered Species Act protection back in 2011.
The call for this status review is the first step toward restoring Endangered Species Act protection to wolves in Idaho and other Northern Rockies states.
Instead of managing their wolves like other wildlife, the state of Idaho has declared war on them.
In the less than three years since Congress stripped Idaho’s wolves of protection, the state has:


  • Used aerial gunning to wipe out entire packs, including those on national forest lands, to artificially boost elk populations;
  • Allowed hunting of wolves every day of the year;
  • Doubled the number of wolves that could be trapped or snared from five to ten;
  • Sent a professional trapper to eliminate two packs of wolves in a federal wilderness area;
  • Has proposed killing 60 percent of the remaining wolves in the Frank Church Wilderness; and
  • Recently passed HB470 into law setting aside an annual amount of $400,000 for the sole purpose of killing as many wolves as possible.
The Governor of Idaho has made no secret of his intention to reduce the state's wolf population to 150 animals or less – which would require initially killing more than 450 wolves and their young as more are born.
We warned this would happen – when federal protections are removed, wolves die.
Sincerely,
27379.jpg
Jamie Rappaport Clark
President
Defenders of Wildlife
Annual DOW budget meeting didn't go as planned.
 
Ben... it doesn't appear we are reducing the population. Keeping it from growing "much" maybe!

Below is the Headline on FWPs web page right now.

"Montana's verified wolf count remained stable last year while livestock depredations by wolves continued to decline, dropping about 27 percent from 2012. A total of 627 wolves were counted at the end of 2013, compared to 625 last year. "

Idaho wont ruin it for us all... they are just pushing the limits here... IMO...
 

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