Thoughts and such

[Mudranger1]

Just a couple thoughts and stuff, prob will start a riot. Ordered season 1 & 2 for Christmas present to myself. Why don't they just play all the way through instead of going back to the main menu after every hunt? Second thing, I just feel like there are too many recreated scenes. Just my opinion but I don't want to see someone act surprised when you're coming up on something and the camera man is already down there filming you. I don't want to see the camera angle change from behind you looking over your shoulder watching the animal to in front of you looking back at what you are doing. I mean I guess if you have two and one of them is dumb enough to sit there it is ok (doesn't seem very safe but hey it's your call). Don't get me wrong I love the website and I really love the concept of the show and the animals you guys consistantly track down just not of fan of certain parts of the show.

 

[the nikster]

That is sacreligious. You should be banned for-EVER!
Actually I think Randy welcomes any tips we can give him. I don't think he can act on all of them but he does hear them.

 

[Big Fin]

Thanks for the comments. Not offended by any of them.

As far as the recreates, sometimes those are necessary for transition from one scene to the next. I know some people will claim they don't like them, as it is "not as it happened." Very little of what ends up in our final episode is a recreate, so if you think you are watching LOTS of recreates, some of what you find to be a recreate is actually as it happened.

If we want any sort of quality, flow, and transition, we need certain clips. We try to get them live, but if the live clip is of low quality, we are going to use the recreated clip for that transition. Look at shows that have none of that, little if any transition, and I think for the most part, their production quality is ....... well, not what we shoot for. That might be my personal preference of what I want to see in a TV show and not what others care about.

We often have two camera guys, so that allows us to capture the real deal as it happened, and have less recreates. We always have one camera on the animals, and if possible, one camera on the shooter/hunter(s). Sometimes it doesn't work that way, and both are on the animal.

One thing about our show is that we are not in a controlled environment like most shows, so it is very hard to get everything and get it perfect as it happens. We don't have a TV in the tent where we can review footage, then go out and get what we might have missed of not gotten perfectly. Therefore, we have to work hard to get it right, as it happens, at the highest possibly level of quality. And we do some recreates, in the event the "live" clip is not of the quality we shoot for.

I understand you may not like the changing camera angles from an "over the shoulder" view to a "face on" view. But, I am not going to have footage of the back of my head while I am talking. Other shows may, but we won't. As such, we are going to use many different camera angles. Maybe some like the back of talking heads, but I don't and am annoyed when I see it on a show. Probably a quirk of mine.

Yes, there is a level of logistic and safety problem with set-ups where we try to get that face on footage as it happens. When possible,we try to anticipate the set up and place a camera out in front, if at all possible. Can't always be done. When it works, it is very cool. We will never do it in a hurry or in a situation that endangers a camera guy. In those instances where we can't get it as it happened, it will be recreated.

When we come back from an episode, we need every thing possible for the editors. We do not have the luxury of say a midwest whitetail show where they can go and recreate missing pieces in the back 40, if the editor tells them they missed a clip or the live clip was bad. All our hunts are for different species in different terrain, with different weather conditions. So, we have to do our best to capture it and get it while we are in the field.

Your impression that there are too many recreated scenes is actually a compliment to us and to the camera guys. There are very, very, few recreated scenes in any of the final edits, so much of the stuff you are seeing and thinking is recreated is actually as it happened, so that is a good sign that we are doing it "as it happens" to a good level.

I think if you asked any of the guys here on Hunt Talk who have been in the episodes, they would agree with how little of the end product is a recreated scene. We have so many cameras with us, that we can capture a ton of different angles, live.

Example would be the New Mexico archery elk episode for Season Three. We had four cameras with us, between Troy and I. The big Canon with the zoom, the small Canon I use for POV shots, a GoPro helmet cam, Troys DSLR. It is a pain to carry all of that, along with tapes/batteries/cards for such, in addition to all the gear we are packing in our MR packs, but it is the only way you can get enough angles and clips to capture it as it happens.

I know that very few other shows are doing it that way. And I don't blame them, as it is a ton of work, even if you had the benefit of controlled environments, as opposed to the backpack hunts we do. At the risk of sounding boastful, OYOA is one of the top shows in outdoor TV, in terms of production values, especially when considering the conditions under which it is filmed. That would not be the case if not for the extra work, extra cameras, and extra angles provided by great camera guys carrying lots of camers for many different angles.

As far as the recovery scenes, the only scene I can think of where there was a surprise was in Season One when the camera guy found my wounded elk and they whistled me over. That is what happened. Other recovery sceens are us walking up to animals that we know are already dead and laying there. We know where they fall, so we send the camera guy to set up near where the animal is dead. The idea being that it best to see our reaction as we first walk up to the animal, rather than contrive some sort of fake emotions in a recreate. If that comes across as false surprise, I will watch more closely for that this season, as that is not our intent.

What you have seen on those recover scenes is what has happened. Yes, we knew where the animal was and set up the camera to capture our excitement of getting our first good glimpse of the animal up close. Never any intent to make it look like a big surprise when we find them.

Not sure why the DVDs do not play all the way through. I will ask the reproduction group why that is happening.

There will be tweaks and changes for Season Three, and most of those are based on good feedback, such as this. Thanks for providing such.

 

[Mudranger1]

hey if the scenes are real more power to you guys, guess I just derived my position from what I have seen with other shows. I was highly dissappointed when watching a dvd and everything was great and I had really been a supporter of said brand (not to name any names but Hunters Specialties) and at the end of the dvd there is a blooper real where the guy walks all excited 2-3 times and messes up his "lines". I think I have heard mossy oak talk about doing recreates too. I apologize if yall are putting in the work. But On the walk down scenes I was really thinking about the one where you found the bighorn sheep. I'll keep watching and like I said believe strongly in your show/what your doing. Keep it up

 

[----]

Somewhat related to Mudranger's point, I'm always wanting a better look at the animal than you're giving. Is there a reason for this?
The episode that really comes to mind is the MT bear hunt, the bear's hardly shown at all.
When I kill an animal personally, I spend probably a half hour after I find it, just looking at it, and admiring.

 

[Lawnboy]

I'll jump in with my 2 cents since I have had 5 opportunities to do episodes. Mudranger I can completely understand your frustration and maybe disbelief. Most people think (including me in the beginning) that filming a hunt would be somewhat easy and just fun. The reality is that if you were to create a show just how it happens you would have to have a helmet camera on your head and the whole show would make you vomit because of it being so shaky.
One thing for the viewers to keep in mind is that you have 21 minutes of air time to tell the whole story of your 5-10 day hunt. Think about that for a minute could you possibly tell me on film how your entire hunt went in that little of time? No way. You could probably barely sit down and tell someone the story of your hunt in that time. This is were Randy is trying to explain the transition effect. It would be a complete mess just trying to scab everything together. It would be a jumble of travel, packing,camping,scouting, animal shots, days that turned into busts ect......

Now I'll admit the first episode I shot with them I was frustrated. Heck the last one was frustrating at times. As a "filmee" you have to have the mindset that you are going to try to film your story so that someone back home can feel like he's there with you emotionally. So if you and I hunted elk together and we put an awesome sneak on a bull and you make an awesome shot. We're going to be excited to go check him out or comment to each other of how good of a shot it was. The fact is that we'd both be smiling probably heading over to check him out. You can't portray any of those emotions from behind. Nobody would know how we felt or how excited we were because they couldn't see us out front.
So this is why you'll sometimes get flip flopped shots. There's really no other way to get those emotional shots. It's extremely awkward to have the cameraman say "hey I need you to say that again" or say "I need you redo your excitement now that I'm in front". He knew how excited we were but needs us to portray it again. Yea it's kind of like a movie or acting but the reality is that it wasn't an act at all. It was how it happened and he would like to try to catch that.
The ideal thing and hard thing is that we need think about what we are going to do before we do it and tell the cameraman first. (Example) we are going to stop and look at a map because we aren't sure of something. This is something the camera dude surely wants but if Randy and I quickly pull the map out of the pack and start looking with out warning the camera guy he'd miss all of it. So instead of having to do a reinactment of that scene we'll tell him we're going to stop and look at map because we aren't sure about something.
This type of scenario has to happen lots to really capture it as it happens without re-inactments.

Anyway sorry for the ramble but the whole filming hunts isn't what's it's cracked up to be. It takes a lot of patience and for thought. The product has to be of "movie quality" without the movie quality actors or scrip. There is no script on a hunt.at least there shouldn't be .so I guess my advice is just sit back and try to enjoy knowing that what you're seeing isn't a pile of BS. Randys a normal joe like me and you. We hunt like each other and do things that are similar. Nobody will ever try to pull the wool over our eyes with this show. Anything that would be recreated would only be for the benefit of the "true story" as it happened.
Your concerns are valid and I was critical at first as well but having done it,I now know why things are done the way they are. There's no doubt things can always improve and I'm sure Randy would admit to that and take all concerns and advice to heart.

Here's to another year that is hopefully even better than the last. Bart

 

[Big Fin]

Somewhat related to Mudranger's point, I'm always wanting a better look at the animal than you're giving. Is there a reason for this?
The episode that really comes to mind is the MT bear hunt, the bear's hardly shown at all.
When I kill an animal personally, I spend probably a half hour after I find it, just looking at it, and admiring.

That is another interesting comment, Randy. Here is where it comes from, and I might be the guilty party.

I hate shows that spend the entire time talking about scores, inches, etc., before the animal has even stopped breathing. Or the ones that have ridiculous fist pumping "Johnny Bad Ass" shouting to the camera.

To me, the hunt is about the experience and the kill is part of that. But, not all of that.

So, I instruct the editors to not spend too much time on the trophy scenes. Maybe that is my personal quirks coming through, but I find the behavior of some shows and their hosts to be so far over the top, that I want to be as far away from some of that impression as possible.

Yeah, we get excited, and I hope the comes through. First and foremost, this is a hunt, and an animal's life was taken for food and trophy. He gave us a challenge and the least we can do is show respect for the animal. Part of the respect issue is not boiling him down to mere inches and spread, before we even take our packs off.

I tell every guest hunter that there is one action that will send me off the deep end, and possibly result in them hitchhiking back to camp. That would be if they look at the camera after a kill shot and flash a bad boy scowl, then gruffly say, "That's what I'm talkin' about, right there."

Seems like half, or more, of the hosts on TV do it. I thought it was funny when Waddell first started it, but I have grown so sick of it. Loren, one of the camera guys, always says it to me when he wants to raise my spirits and make me laugh. When he says it, it does make me laugh.

Again, another good comment, and causes me to consider if my personal preferences are too much reflected in the show. I guess that is natural, being this is crafted in the manner of hunting I grew up with and the style of hunting I share with friends and family.

Thanks for the observation.

 

[----]

I get where you're coming from.
The animal itself is just a huge deal to me. I probably spend 20-30 days in the field for each animal I take, so when I do finally get that animal, I take the time to appreciate it.

I'm not complaining, you always put up great pics here of your kills anyways. Just wondered if there was a specific reason why you do it that way. Good to know

 

[Gerald Martin]

Randy, Somewhat along the lines of Randy11's comments, I sure wouldn't mind seeing you spend more time with the dead animals. I really appreciate the fact you aren't grabbing the racks and doing a quick count before pronouncing you just smoked this big taen pawnter, but I like camera work that highlights different parts of the animal or angles that show fur, hair and all the great stuff that makes a trophy more than just the rack.

One shot that comes to mind that was exceptional in this requard was on the season 2 whitetail hunt with Oak. When he shot his buck the first shot of the dead deer was a closeup of its browtines. That was a cool shot that really showed the texture of the antlers.

As far as the walkup on the second dead ram you found on the Montana Bighorn episode, I thought that was an exceptional way to tell the story of finding that sheep. You didn't go overboard and try to fake like you just found it and yet the transition was very smooth in the storyline.

Having done a little camera work, I can sympathize that telling the story in a compelling, fluid, manner and sticking to exactly the way it happened is a lot harder than it looks. I think you guys are striking an excellent balence.

 

[ashersdad]

It always amazes me just how much footage and the quality of footage that is required to get a good hunt on film. I took several hours worth of video of my Alaska hunt this year and I don't think you could even put 10 minutes of it together to make sense. My hat goes off to Fin and crew for putting together such top notch videos.

I have been on several hunts where they were filmed "professionally" and as Fin and Lawnboy have stated, it's amazing what goes into getting a hunt on film. I personally love to see alot of the actual hunt and what went into getting or not getting the animal.

Keep up the good work.

 

[echo7]

My two cents as a Television pro. With OYOA being a public land hunt and a difficult hunt to say the least, the few recovery shots I have viewed are in no way like any other show. There are only so many ways to approach the animal, using the host and/or guest in the camera shots. I am wracking what brains I have left to come up with a different view and approach to this portion of a hunting show?
Randy his crew spend more time, money and expertise to give us the type of hunting we all do and enjoy. Very few of us has the opportunity to hunt the high fences, food plots, mineral lures and overdone comedy attempts other shows portray. That is why OYOA is different. That is why the forums are filled with Wow, Great Job, Fantastic trophy, etc. As Randy and the OYOA crew continue they will, many times through this forum, change things, add things, do away with others. But, you can be rest assured they are doing this show not just for their entertainment and financial freedom, but because they love the sport, enjoy we the viewers and are having a great time and sharing it.
We can all nit pick, and sometimes this is what Randy wants to hear. The more feedback they get, the better the show is going to be. OYOA seems to be constantly experimenting with cameras, equipment and production cuts that will make this show constantly better. Thanks for letting me be involved.

 

[mdunc8]

Not a whole lot to add other than I have enjoyed Season 2 so far. I would like to get a better look at the animal too. Don't need the hero shot, but I struggle on some of the hunts to figure out what the animal actually is (Bart's Montana mule deer comes to mind).

Not sure if this happened with all of dvds, but mine were mislabeled (disk one is actually disk two). I really don't care, but figured you might like to know since you're the one dropping the money to get them printed.

 

[Mudranger1]

I understand or at least thin I do the difficulty in having to tell the the cameraman you are going to do something before and all that kind of stuff. Personally I would just rather see you from behind or side following up a blood trail then coming down to animal and being excited. To me seems a little more believable (maybe I'm the one being fooled by the few other shows that do it this way). Now I'm not saying saying you aren't genuinly excited when you come down hell I still get excited by our elk hunt and it was two and half months ago, just my preference I guess. It's your show, do what makes you happy I'm the one going to work at 140 in the morning to sling some bread, oh by the way your making me late! thanks for the responses side note my dvds were mislabeled too

 

[Lawnboy]

Not a whole lot to add other than I have enjoyed Season 2 so far. I would like to get a better look at the animal too. Don't need the hero shot, but I struggle on some of the hunts to figure out what the animal actually is (Bart's Montana mule deer comes to mind).

Not sure if this happened with all of dvds, but mine were mislabeled (disk one is actually disk two). I really don't care, but figured you might like to know since you're the one dropping the money to get them printed.

Mdunc, I know it was a smallerish buck buck you didn't have to be so blunt