MT Wolf Closure Reopened

[MT_elk]

For those of you in MT, a judge recently reopened the previously closed areas north of Yellowstone.

Read the article here:

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/wildlife/article_0de689e6-553f-11e2-bb2d-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Big Fin]

If the Commission is really worried about the research value of these collared wolves and not being reactionary, it seems the easy solution is to make collared wolves off limits in that unit. Problem solved, lawsuit goes away, and we have one less thing to worry about.

If it is about caving to political pressure and using a backassed method to close some areas, then they will continue with the closures of this and/or other areas. In the process, inciting further opportunities for the SFW crowd to make money on the issue.

Point being, it was a stupid solution to a problem that was a foreseen possibility when the entire process started. If these wolves really have all this research value, funny we heard nothing of this concern at the time season and management plans were being put in place? Where were these advocates of closure at the time of those discussions, if they were supposedly so concerned about the research value of these wolves.

Did they purposely not weigh in, as from the other side of their mouth, they were telling people that wolves would stay close to the park, so as to not raise further clamor to a pot that was rapidly boiling over on them? Were they afraid that it would be contradictory to their assurances that wolves stayed close by and any impact of wolves would be locally isolated to YNP?

Just more frigging politics and posturing.

Sort it out folks. If these wolves are so valuable, then mkae any collared wolves in this unit, off limits. Do so with the agreement that YNP will only collar "X" number of wolves, so to prevent these wolf counterfeits from pressuring YNP to collar every wolf as a back door method to further remove wolves from the Montana state management plan. Seem such a regulation eliminates the need to close any areas.

Not that diffiuclt of a problem to solve, if you are serious about solving the problem. If you are more interested in politics than solutions, then it becomes an "unsolveable" problem.

 

[Ben Lamb]

If the Commission is really worried about the research value of these collared wolves and not being reactionary, it seems the easy solution is to make collared wolves off limits in that unit. Problem solved, lawsuit goes away, and we have one less thing to worry about.

If it is about caving to political pressure and using a backassed method to close some areas, then they will continue with the closures of this and/or other areas. In the process, inciting further opportunities for the SFW crowd to make money on the issue.

Point being, it was a stupid solution to a problem that was a foreseen possibility when the entire process started. If these wolves really have all this research value, funny we heard nothing of this concern at the time season and management plans were being put in place? Where were these advocates of closure at the time of those discussions, if they were supposedly so concerned about the research value of these wolves.

Did they purposely not weigh in, as from the other side of their mouth, they were telling people that wolves would stay close to the park, so as to not raise further clamor to a pot that was rapidly boiling over on them? Were they afraid that it would be contradictory to their assurances that wolves stayed close by and any impact of wolves would be locally isolated to YNP?

Just more frigging politics and posturing.

Sort it out folks. If these wolves are so valuable, then mkae any collared wolves in this unit, off limits. Do so with the agreement that YNP will only collar "X" number of wolves, so to prevent these wolf counterfeits from pressuring YNP to collar every wolf as a back door method to further remove wolves from the Montana state management plan. Seem such a regulation eliminates the need to close any areas.

Not that diffiuclt of a problem to solve, if you are serious about solving the problem. If you are more interested in politics than solutions, then it becomes an "unsolveable" problem.

Randy,

A lot of the conservation and environmental groups were pushing for no trapping around the park. They were there voicing their concerns at the commission meetings all throughout the tentative process.

Trapping was included around the parks out of political consideration for the sporting community.

 

[Straight Arrow]

.

Trapping was included around the parks out of political consideration for the sporting community

It's my understanding the collared wolves taken were shot, not trapped. Please explain how trapping relates to this current closure issue?

 

[Big Fin]

Randy,

A lot of the conservation and environmental groups were pushing for no trapping around the park. They were there voicing their concerns at the commission meetings all throughout the tentative process.

Trapping was included around the parks out of political consideration for the sporting community.

They voiced concerns about trapping. Trapping most anywhere, not just around the park. This is not an issue of trapping, as I understand it. This is an issue of a few collared wolves getting shot when they leave YNP.

Not once did I hear a concern of research data on collared wolves from those you mention. The voiced concerns at that time were about trapping, anywhere, for any wolves, collared or not. Or, maybe I missed the comments about collared wolves. I surely did not hear it comments from any of the biologists with YNP, the people with the most invested in research.

This issue at hand is supposedly about the reseach value of collared wolves getting shot, not trapping, right?

If the issue is about research data of collared wolves, would it matter if a wolf was shot by a hunter or caught by a trapper? If anything a trapped wolf can be released and probably have no adverse affects. A shot wolf is usually not able to be released.

Back to my point, that the easiest solution is making collared wolves off limits.

 

[Ben Lamb]

They voiced concerns about trapping. Trapping most anywhere, not just around the park. This is not an issue of trapping, as I understand it. This is an issue of a few collared wolves getting shot when they leave YNP.

Yes, some did voice concerns about trapping all over the state, others voiced concerns about trapping specifically around YNP. These same groups have been pushing for a finer scale hunt around the park as well based on population numbers, egress from the park, and availability to hunters along with the research component.

The harvest of the collared wolves brought the issue to the forefront and based off of the discussion at the Commission meeting when the season was set, it was made clear by the commission that they would revisit harvest around YNP in December.

 

[RobG]

If the Commission is really worried about the research value of these collared wolves and not being reactionary, it seems the easy solution is to make collared wolves off limits in that unit. Problem solved, lawsuit goes away, and we have one less thing to worry about.

I'm by no means an expert but I happened to sit in on a few FWP meetings where the issue came up. The thought about the collars was that hunters wouldn't always be able to see them from the distances we shoot. Someone suggested making them orange which could help (or make the wolves easier to find ). There was also the thought by the usual certain citizens that hunters might be targeting collared wolves to disrupt the program. I heard rumors that two collars from harvested wolves were thrown in the creek near the kill site.

It is also my understanding that outside of the park wolves are collared so that the pack can be tracked down and eliminated if they start causing problems so it appears to be a bad idea to shoot collared wolves in general... perhaps more education. Pat Flowers also mentioned that we need to start educating the public to view the wolves as a population that is not in danger of being wiped out by hunters and not get so caught up in the individuals being shot (good luck with that).

Perhaps a quota on collared wolves in that area would get everyone to look twice. I think this hunt is a learn-as-you-go-along thing and changes will be made to help minimize the problems as we go forward so a little patience is in order. Then again I get accused of giving FWP too much credit.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Attached are the comments from the Greater Yellowstone Coalition about the MT season.

 

[BuzzH]

It sure seems like hunters have done a shitload of compromising on the wolf issue from day 1. We've given up plenty for there to be a viable and healthy wolf population.

Now that the compromise must come from the wolf hippies on collared wolves, they dont want any compromise.

It wont ever stop with the sniveling and whining from that camp...ever. I'm over it...let them whine.

 

[shoots-straight]

The "Greater Yellowstone Coalition" writes this as one of there accomplishments. Even if you have the opportunity for a lawsuit, do you do it just because? Grizzlies aren't endangered in Montana, and if they did fall in numbers, THEN you file your lawsuit. What was their purpose other than to save Grizzlies.

From their web:

Demanding the protections grizzlies deserve: GYC was founded in 1983 essentially to save the struggling Greater Yellowstone grizzly, and we have been fighting on behalf of the great bear ever since. In September 2009, our lawsuit to restore Endangered Species Act protections for this Yellowstone icon prevailed when a federal judge ruled that the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service failed to acknowledge such threats to the grizzly’s future as global warming, the decline of food sources and habitat fragmentation.

If that's not knee jerk reactions, then I don't know what is.

 

[Ben Lamb]

It sure seems like hunters have done a shitload of compromising on the wolf issue from day 1. We've given up plenty for there to be a viable and healthy wolf population.

Now that the compromise must come from the wolf hippies on collared wolves, they dont want any compromise.

It wont ever stop with the sniveling and whining from that camp...ever. I'm over it...let them whine.

'Cause that's helpful.

 

[shoots-straight]

It wont ever stop with the sniveling and whining from that camp...ever. I'm over it...let them whine.

Me too! Off to check my wolf traps!

 

[BuzzH]

Yeah Ben, and bending over and taking it in the ass is so much easier every time the hippies stomp their feet??? Thats helpful? To whom?

When are you going to decide that enough is enough and grow a spine?

Just curious.

 

[RobG]

What do you guys think about approaching the NPS to produce wolf literature to include with their entrance handouts including the fact that the things invariably suffer a violent death, hunting being probably the most humane? The anthropomorphizing of them, especially focusing on individuals, really needs to stop. YNP is supposed to be a natural ecosystem, not a petting zoo.

Are there any hunting groups working with the FWP and NPS to solve the problem? I'm sure DOW, Sierra Club, Earth Justice, GYC, etc are...

 

[whiskeydog]

And why would NPS support anything that in anyway might ever-so-slightly reduce the allure of their number 1 tourist attraction and money generator?

 

[RobG]

And why would NPS support anything that in anyway might ever-so-slightly reduce the allure of their number 1 tourist attraction and money generator?

Cuz we are consistently in their face maybe?

 

[Anyfish]

Demanding the protections grizzlies deserve: GYC was founded in 1983 essentially to save the struggling Greater Yellowstone grizzly, and we have been fighting on behalf of the great bear ever since. In September 2009, our lawsuit to restore Endangered Species Act protections for this Yellowstone icon prevailed when a federal judge ruled that the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service failed to acknowledge such threats to the grizzly’s future as global warming, the decline of food sources and habitat fragmentation.

Heck as I see it, the decline of the food sources was caused by the wolves tipping the scales. I think GYC needs to sue Wolves of the Rockies. . .

 

[Lawnboy]

I think most of the stink is coming about because some of the wolves shot were "celebrity" wolves. Most any critter in and around the park is being photographed by many folks. Lots of them are real popular whether it's a particular wolf, bull elk, bison, ram or whatever.

It gets people all worked up when one of them gets shot. I don't think we would of heard any reaction if a collared wolf in the Madison would of been shot. I can understand the arguement of loss of data from taking any collared animal. The solution is to not allow any collared animals to be harvested if that really is the issue. Like I said I have a feeling the greater underlying problem was that the wolves had names and were celebs.