antelopedundee
Well-known member
This is the swamp and people like Zinke are like adding more water and muck to it.
Hammonds get BLM lease reinstated.
- Thread starter PrairieHunter
- Start date
This is the swamp and people like Zinke are like adding more water and muck to it.
COEngineer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2016
- Messages
- 1,462
When the Hammond story first came out, I thought, "This could be it! A legitimate use of the 2nd Amendment to fight against a tyrannical government." Then I started reading the details. Uncontrolled fires on public land, poaching, etc. Then the Bundy's showed up with, "God told me to do it." "It" being an armed takeover of public land which eventually led to the death of one of their friends while he yelled, "Shoot me!" and reached into his jacket. Then Trump and Zinke using extraordinary powers to set everything back to the way it was.
I think some people came into this story the same way I did, but never got to step 2 (reading the facts).
I think some people came into this story the same way I did, but never got to step 2 (reading the facts).
Would you be cool with Mike Vick running a dog breeding business?
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
It’s not really all that different now, except the bulk of the money goes to a private entity with the sale of the base property. All leases are tied to a base property, and the rights (not sure this is the best term) to the lease go with the base property. This makes a small chunk of deeded ground worth an astronomical amount if it has a desirable lease associated with it. The AUMs aren’t worth much to the public landowner, but they sure increase value of private land.
Grundy53
Member
It's completely different now. The small independent rancher isn't required to purchase the base property every year or 5. Once he buys/inherits it he's locked in. If you require him to purchase his grazing allotment though auction he will be put out of business. The big operators will out bid him just to get rid of the competition. While people might think this would be great because it will bring more money to the coffers they would be wrong. The next time the allotment comes up for bid there won't be anyone left to out bid the big time operator. So he only has to pay the minimum or even worse he doesn't renew because he doesn't need it and he got rid of the competition.
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
I didn't mean to imply he was required to purchase/re-purchase the base property every 5 years. I meant if he wanted the opportunity to attain a BLM lease, he/she was already going to pay a king's ransom to have the opportunity for that. Big operators already have the advantage in getting these under the current system.
FI460
Well-known member
Valid concern. I prefer to argue for a modernization of the AUM value. Correct it for inflation perhaps. Or maybe we could correct it for the average percent increase in hunting license fees. I like that idea a whole lot.
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
AUM pricing has nothing to do with hunting license fees.
Modernization of the AUM value requires an act of Congress. Literally. It's pretty tough for one to argue the price isn't incredibly low when you look at how difficult it is to get one in the first place, and how rare it is for a lessee to ever relinquish the grazing rights.
FI460
Well-known member
I am well aware that hunting licensure and grazing fees are set by different agencies. That comment was a bit of tongue in cheek.
Congress does have the authority to modify the fee, and they do occasionally. Unfortunately, they've kept it at a gross subsidy level.
Congress does have the authority to modify the fee, and they do occasionally. Unfortunately, they've kept it at a gross subsidy level.
antlerradar
Well-known member
JLS
I am pretty sure owning base property is no longer required.
I am pretty sure owning base property is no longer required.
I bet a lot of Bundy supporters would have thought differently if they had pulled their little public land sit in/takeover in Yellowstone instead of a place most people never heard of. Just saying. It's going to be interesting to see if they want to play by the rules this time.
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
Maybe Miller or Pointer can clarify that. I know of a ranch that went to auction, and the bulk of the acreage was split from the BLM base property.
Click the "Permit" dropdown.
https://www.blm.gov/programs/natural-resources/rangelands-and-grazing/livestock-grazing
That's how I came into it. That is the wedge folks like Mike Lee use though. A lot of us grew up around ranchers. Some if who have legitimate issues with BLM that we are also aware of. So guys like Lee then project that outward as being all of federal management is bad, and should be replaced. Like you said, too many stop at the intro, and never look at the facts. Those are the folks who suck into "transfer". In Utah, my state, you add that shallow reading to a religion with a history of the feds being openly hostile. Along with it teaching obedience to authority. Its not hard to see how twisted land issues can get with those not going to the 2nd step.
one ate E grain
Active member
Like most things it's not so cut and dried as might first appear. We all know of the takeover of the refuge and even the poaching and fire to cover it up, but the story begins a long time before that, and the animosity and bad blood would never have happened today. Nowadays the USFWS works cooperatively with ranchers to improve the land for wildlife. The story begins back in the mid 90s, a time when Jamie Clark (Defenders of Wildlife) was director of USFWS and misappropriating PR funds to the tune of millions. Grazing allotments were being rolled up whenever possible, often enough with one day notice and under any pretence at all. Those bad beginnings caused things to go crosswise for decades.
The state and the county refused to bring charges about the fires, one was a backfire to control an already occurring burn. There wasn't a lot that was real serious there. The witness to the poaching coverup was a disturbed Hammond son who'd been mistreated by the family. An inexperienced US Attorney formerly concentrating on child abuse, and who had to leave under very nutty personal issues and a charge under the terrorism laws that were part of the Patriot Act. The whole thing was a mess.
I don't like people using firearms to intimidate, and no one has the right to occupy federal land, and ranchers or landowners have no right to poach. That said there was a lot to the whole thing, a lot more than I can write in so few words. I should also say the Hammonds are well thought of locally, small towns everyone gets to know everyone. They were in danger of losing the ranch, sounds like they kept it. The old man is old, probably not that long to go anyway. I hope that town, those ranchers, and the refuge can enjoy some peace and quiet for a while.
The state and the county refused to bring charges about the fires, one was a backfire to control an already occurring burn. There wasn't a lot that was real serious there. The witness to the poaching coverup was a disturbed Hammond son who'd been mistreated by the family. An inexperienced US Attorney formerly concentrating on child abuse, and who had to leave under very nutty personal issues and a charge under the terrorism laws that were part of the Patriot Act. The whole thing was a mess.
I don't like people using firearms to intimidate, and no one has the right to occupy federal land, and ranchers or landowners have no right to poach. That said there was a lot to the whole thing, a lot more than I can write in so few words. I should also say the Hammonds are well thought of locally, small towns everyone gets to know everyone. They were in danger of losing the ranch, sounds like they kept it. The old man is old, probably not that long to go anyway. I hope that town, those ranchers, and the refuge can enjoy some peace and quiet for a while.
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
The old man sounds like a grumpy old bastard who will always view it as “his land”. The sons comments sounded a little more humble and accepting of a need to change. Hopefully lessons were learned and new opportunities are appreciated and not taken for granted.
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