Where does SFW stand on public lands.
- Thread starter Hoopermat
- Start date
Topgun 30-06
Active member
Just check out who the top guest speaker is at the EXPO and that should be all you need to know about SFW!!!
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Brian Call (Grtty Bowman) put together a really good podcast on attending the Hunting Expo. I thought I understood the issues, but he broke it down a little further than I had seen before. Worth a listen.
Here is a link to the Youtube version. There is also a podcast version if you are a podcast person
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIMWvKD5Uew
Here is a link to the Youtube version. There is also a podcast version if you are a podcast person
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIMWvKD5Uew
Topgun 30-06
Active member
I listened to half of that youtube version and turned it off because it was very obvious the guy doesn't know anywhere near enough about the boondoggle bidding and collusion between SFW and the DWR to even be discussing it! Cripes, he mentioned the EXPO has 100 tags when it's 200 total, as well as comments almost backing up the DWR' decision like he had no idea how big the RMEF is and why the DWR chose SFW with just a bunch of BS reasons trying to justify it!
LopeHunter
Well-known member
RMEF got screwed by the good old buddy process. I applaud them for trying. Most of us are usually too busy to do much more than take care of our family and other responsibilities. Is great when an organization can step up to the plate to fight the noble battle when public assets are being diverted.
SFW is a slush fund to do things the State of Utah is not legally able to do or is not willing to take the heat for doing. The tags and the crowds it draws effectively reallocates what would be restricted state funds so they now are laundered to be unrestricted funds held by a 3rd party not burdened in ways the state of Utah would be burdened by oversight and legal restrictions.
Anyone who thinks RMEF can't run a better show, raffle and auction when handed the same exact tags as SFW is not paying attention or is not being sincere. RMEF is a nationwide rather than regional organization. More members. Gets more done for hunters out West. Significantly more trusted once you drive beyond Utah's border.
Don't forget RMEF is transparent on how they obtain funds and how they use those funds. Who says so? An independent review that looks at non-profits. They are transparent because they need trust to raise funds and attract volunteers. Any legitimate organization welcomes an independent audit and review since this builds trust. Unless your organization is a slush fund which then my advice is to smile a lot and hide the books from anyone that has the power to reveal the financial details. Remember the provision in the original contract about how funds were to be accounted for? Yep, good old boys sort of let that slide with a sincere "all is good over here so I guess that is fulfilled" wink. Nice job State of Utah.
SFW is a slush fund to do things the State of Utah is not legally able to do or is not willing to take the heat for doing. The tags and the crowds it draws effectively reallocates what would be restricted state funds so they now are laundered to be unrestricted funds held by a 3rd party not burdened in ways the state of Utah would be burdened by oversight and legal restrictions.
Anyone who thinks RMEF can't run a better show, raffle and auction when handed the same exact tags as SFW is not paying attention or is not being sincere. RMEF is a nationwide rather than regional organization. More members. Gets more done for hunters out West. Significantly more trusted once you drive beyond Utah's border.
Don't forget RMEF is transparent on how they obtain funds and how they use those funds. Who says so? An independent review that looks at non-profits. They are transparent because they need trust to raise funds and attract volunteers. Any legitimate organization welcomes an independent audit and review since this builds trust. Unless your organization is a slush fund which then my advice is to smile a lot and hide the books from anyone that has the power to reveal the financial details. Remember the provision in the original contract about how funds were to be accounted for? Yep, good old boys sort of let that slide with a sincere "all is good over here so I guess that is fulfilled" wink. Nice job State of Utah.
Topgun, if you listen to Newberg he mentions Brian Call (Grittybowman) a lot. He is more than aware of the size of RMEF and is keyed into the industry.
Part of my question was what Brian call said. He was talking about SFW and the expo like they are the good guys. Meanwhile SFW supports the Utah elected officials that are constantly pushing this land transfer agenda. People like Ken Ivory are at the front of that agenda and are also supported by the SFW.
So I am confused. Why would the gritty bowmen podcast be supporting the people that support the land transfer.
So I am confused. Why would the gritty bowmen podcast be supporting the people that support the land transfer.
idahohuntr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2013
- Messages
- 333
I listened to the whole thing. I'm extremely disappointed in this guy. I've watched some of his content - but no more. He tried really hard to straddle the fence on a controversial issue by claiming there isn't enough evidence of whether SFW is corrupt. While I appreciate the innocent until proven guilty in a criminal proceeding - I do not believe this same logic should be extended to private organizations who are gifted scarce public resources, like our wildlife. If there are any legitimate questions about how a private organization is using funds raised for/from public resources - don't support that organization until you are 100% clear. For him to even go further and explain why it is a bad idea for SFW to subject themselves to an audit is even more asinine. Anyways, a terrible disappointment by another "hunting celebrity" willing to look the other way while average sportsmen get screwed.
My last point - in listening to this guy babble about finance aspects of wildlife management...he needs a refresher on the NAMWC. Its not about squeezing every last dollar out of the public's wildlife.
A) I don't believe that Brian made them out to be "good guys" he just to explain it from a neutral position
B) The topic isn't as black and white/simple as we would like to make it out to be
If you have ever been the person/group responsible for awarding bids you know that some groups/companies come in promising the world and never deliver. It seems like the state felt that way about RMEF and also felt that SFW was the safe bet because they were the known "evil".
Am I a fan of SFW?
Far from it. Matter of fact I have steered clear of the Mule Deer Foundation because of the appearance of a partnership between the two. In my mind SFW, in many ways, is similar to the Sierra Club/. They are both out raise money for those working for the organization with little money actually going to issues.
Do things seem fishy?
Yes.
I was pissed when by the state's decision to select SFW over RMEF and felt like there was some major backdoor deal happening, but trying to look at it objectively, as Brian was doing, helps us to see where the story might not be as black and white as we all think. I would love to hear Big Fin's take on Brian's podcast and the RMEF bid (if he can).
Topgun 30-06
Active member
Each to his own regarding that youtube video, but I know what has been happening out in Utah with SFW and the way they run the DWR and state all the way to the Governor's Office. He failed to mention that the initial RMEF bid was the only one submitted and they did it in the last hour of the last day of bidding so as not to alert SFW. Then the DWR illegally changed the format, cancelled the RMEF bid, and started over. The SFW found out exactly what the bid was and still submitted a lot lesser bid than the same one RMEF then put in a second time that he talked about. The DWR came up with several BS excuses about CC security like RMEF was an unknown along with enough other BS stuff to knock the score down and award the bid to SFW. Then to make the process even shadier the DWR extended the SFW contract an extra 5 years such that Utah is locked in for another 9 years now with SFW running the EXPO with not a chance of the citizens removing the stink that Don Peay and his top dogs in SFW have created.
I do remember when that went down a local news reporter. Had a story about it and then was quickly shut down. I don’t understand how Utah will just turn a blind eye to corruption. But again I am also not a part of the controlling party here which is the LDS church
Topgun, some pretty good points. I forgot about the canceled bid and dont know if I had heard about the extended contract - very frustrating. I did hear that Don Peay and SFW have parted ways. Have you heard anything on this?
We have a winner with the most ignorant statement of the day.
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Topgun 30-06
Active member
Very simple man! There aren't enough Utah citizens that even know about the corruption to actually tackle it. If there were, the EXPO wouldn't have the thousands of people that go there every year and spend their hard earned money that the organization needs to stay in existence. On top of that, now that SFW is so in control with it's Board member numbers it would take an act of God to get rid of the stink out there! I won't touch that LDS comment with a 10' pole!
I got stopped a month or so back in a maverick parking lot by a $fw guy. He's been in the upper echaleon forever. Good man. We had never met, although I grew up with board members on $fw, my big mouth I guess made me famous.(infamous). I put it to him straight. $fw if they PUBLICALLY made a statement on opposing "transfer" could become a powerhouse. In fact I told him I would look past the expo shenanigans and join. He's a good man, and started with the usual "of course we support public land". But I pressed him that $fw public stand was neutral at best. He twisted a bunch, but finally admitted that basically that they know where their power comes from, the gov office, and they can't jeopardize that relationship. So that's what I know. I know some of the originators, who went on to become WB, and now sit in leadership. I doubt any would support Mike Lee's vision of selling land, but they seem content to straddle the fence because they know where the bread is buttered.
As for Brian. He's in a quandary. Same as Fin. There are some top quality companies who support "our side" vigorous. But those companies cannot support Fin, Brian, Corey, born and raised, etc, if they don't sell product to folks across the board. I was told by one content producer that he had an idea to have a public land event across from the expo, but the logistics didn't work.
Chafettz will run for gov. As of the other night he and the Lt. Gov are the front runners. I hope Brian, or BHA(who I've ragged for showing up) don't become photo ops for Chafettz next "I'm a hunter too..." pic.
Hoopermat. I started to boycott before Fin "woke" me. This year will be no different.
As for Brian. He's in a quandary. Same as Fin. There are some top quality companies who support "our side" vigorous. But those companies cannot support Fin, Brian, Corey, born and raised, etc, if they don't sell product to folks across the board. I was told by one content producer that he had an idea to have a public land event across from the expo, but the logistics didn't work.
Chafettz will run for gov. As of the other night he and the Lt. Gov are the front runners. I hope Brian, or BHA(who I've ragged for showing up) don't become photo ops for Chafettz next "I'm a hunter too..." pic.
Hoopermat. I started to boycott before Fin "woke" me. This year will be no different.
Pelican
Well-known member
When I moved to Utah, SFW was a fledgling organization. I though about joining, but realized their membership was most interested in sowing discord. I’ve never been much of a whiner, so I passsed on joining. By the time I moved out of state, SFW had effectively neutered UDWR management and exerted more control on the board and RACs than actual biologists. At some RAC meetings, the only actual discussion was about which RAC member would get to kiss DP’s ass first. It taught me to never trust anyone to manage my wildlife and always take the time to be involved. Do whatever you want with your money, but I’m not going to support any company or personality associated with SFW. Just my opinion and glad they are not my problem anymore.
