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  1. #76
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    Jun 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sawtooth View Post
    Is your 7-30 Waters in a TC Contender or lever action rifle? How far were the elk and what bullets did you use? I have been thinking about taking the TC out on a cow elk hunt. I would need to keep shots close and pick my shots, but I think it would be a fun challenge to get an elk with my Super 14.
    Itís Model 94AE XTR. Iíve got a little Burris fixed 4 on top. I shoot 120 gr flat nose game king bullets.

    Both elk were broadside at less than 100 yards and I could see the argument that thatís too light for elk. Itís just all I hunted with for a long time and I love the gun. As I think about it now I donít know if Iíve ever shot anything with it beyond 150 yds or so, but itís killed numerous mule deer bucks and filled many whitetail B tags.
    ďIt is well to go all out sometimes.Ē - Elers Koch

  2. #77

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    Either I missed it or nobody mentioned the 32 Special. That's a great little deer cartridge and my brother-in-law has his grandpa's Winchester 94 chambered in it. Great little gun.
    Old Milwaukee Pro Staff

  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaHunter View Post
    I still keep my eyes peeled for a Kimber Montana in 338 Fed on the used racks and gunbroker.
    Would they rebarrel it in the same chambering if you wanted it done?

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6mm Remington View Post
    I need to add another to the list that should have been made into a factory round............wait for it!

    6.5-06

    I know right! All the 6.5 this and that and they left this one out of the works. It's been around along time and should be a standard cartridge. That goes without saying that anything on the 30-06 case should be a standard chambering. None of them are anything but wonderful!
    Excellent. Have several. Tho if one has a .270 the 6.5-06 is sorta duplicitous. At one time it was the most popular wildcat based on RCBS die sales. The AI version is a winner too.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by midwesthunter View Post
    Its all about marketing today, in the past gun writers would make or break a cartridge. Look at some fantastic cartridges that never took off, either because of poor gun writer reviews or they weren't loaded the way they should have been. Some Remington examples were the 6mm 6.5mm and 8mm. All great rounds, but at that time metric cartridges weren't popular. 350 Remington was another. Today speed is all the rave.

    And honestly barrel burners are never an issue for the average hunter. Say throat will be toast in 1,000 rounds. The average hunter is going to shoot maybe 100 times the first year with break in and finding a load. Then 20 rounds a year or less after that. That rifle will last them a lifetime.
    The 8mm rem mag was almost DOA IIRC. I commented to a Sierra rep about offering an 8mm GameChanger bullet which could make the 8mm Rem Mag the next world class elk cartridge; as if the world needs another elk cartridge. He sort of agreed.

  6. #81

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    Went down a Wikipedia rabbit hole a few months back after reading what was probably a Ron Spomer article and found a cartridge called the .270 British. Looked up the ballistics and it is actually fairly impressive as a intermediate round which is what it was designed to be.
    Ballistically, it seems to fall into that spot between the 7.62x39 and .308 Win. Not really a hunting round and hardly even made it past military trials in the UK due to the 5.56NATO being bulldogged into acceptance by the U.S, but still an interesting cartridge that never was.
    Seen a few mentions of the .444 Marlin on here also. My father owned one in a lever gun once and it was an absolute deer smasher. I keep my eyes open for those big bores sometimes. Something fascinating about them.

  7. #82

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    I have been asked by a couple fellows to respond to this thread. To be honest the number of calibers that have become obsolete, with the hunting populace , especially in the U.S. is staggering for someone my age. So many fine calibers have fallen out of favor in my lifetime.

    What can one not hunt with a 6.5 x 55, 300 H & H, and a 9.3 x 64 Brenneke, but I doubt if there is a major rifle manufacturer in the U.S., that is currently making a 300 H & H or 9.3 x 64 Brenneke, and the Creed, according ti the man bun group is so much better than the swede. (just teasing guys )

    More speed, more power, further distance, less weight ( rifle ), and the desire for a short action, plus the rifle manufacturing companies are always reinventing the wheel to promote sales, are some of the reasons some calibers have become or are becoming obsolete.

    At a recent gathering these words were heard. "The 30/06 is boring" and "the 30/30 is a joke"

    Maybe, but before you bury them, and others, try hunting with some of them. The original Win 71 is like an extension of your arm, the smooth chambering of the 300 H & H might impress you, and it will hold its own in the hunting field as well, the 9.3 x 64 Brenneke will let you hunt the biggest and baddest without knocking your shoulder out of its socket. The 7 x 57 is another great caliber for those of us without a man bun and prefer less recoil, and everyone should have the opportunity to hunt with a Savage 99 250/3000 at least once in their life, aa well as the 30-06 and 30/30

    Surprisingly, some of the above, plus others, like the 7 x 64 Brenneke, which was being used before the 270 existed is still in use in Europe and Africa, as is the 6.5 x 55, 6.5 x 68 Schular, 7 x 64, 8 x 68, 9.3 x 74R

    Among all the "new", what is one "old" you each wish you could add to your collection ?
    Last edited by Europe; 02-11-2019 at 06:03 PM.

  8. #83

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    I have a Mosin Nagant M44 carbine 7.62x54R that's fun to shoot, but I've never killed a critter with it. I know a lot of animals have fallen to that round though. The M44 with the short barrel roars like a cannon and and makes a heck of a fireball when you shoot it at dusk.

  9. #84
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    Europe, your list of calibers is definitely a collection of classics. 9.3x74r would be pretty darn nice in a double rifle. I would love one of those, but I have no idea what I would use it for. I would have to go back to Africa for sure! And if I did that, kudu and buffalo would be the choice. I need to rob a bank!

    What about the old American classics? .30-06 and .30-30 aren't really old to me. They were the popular cartridges of my childhood, so old classics have to predate that - at least if you ask me.

    So, what about the American hyphenateds? We all know the .45-2.1" (aka the 70), though I trust most have never seen it in its classic loadings. Yet, it works every bit as well as ever. And the .45-2.4" (aka the 90) and the .45-2.875" (aka the 110) are fantastic cartridges.

    The .44s are truly the lost classics. .44-77 especially. They were very popular but now only known a relative few gun cranks. The better known .45s are nearly identical and far easier to supply with brass and dies.

    There were .40s of course. The .40-70 was fairly popular as was the .40-90 Sharps bottleneck, but they are almost as rare as the .44s today.

    I suppose most think of the .38-55. Yet, like the .45-70, it is rarely loaded like it was intended. Still a great cartridge though. If you want a very light elk rifle - this would be a nice choice in a vintage lever action repeater. I doubt a single person here would consider it for that however.

    Back then there were just as many short-lived flash-in-the-pans as there is today. The "express" cartridges with light bullets in long cases came and went with little more than a ripple on the shooting ponds. The Everlastings also sank quickly into obscurity. Some of them attempted to hang with the coming overwhelmingly oppressive smokeless, hyper-fast cartridges like the .30-30. I use a .38-72 which is certainly old, but not classic. Works okay but too much powder really. Makes a nice light elk rifle however - laser fast, flat-shootin'! You betchya!

    The old cartridges and, especially, the old rifles are really pretty amazing and a lot of fun to research, track down, and capture and then prepare for duty with special marinades, just like your first elk. It is a lot like hunting before you even draw a tag.

    If you see and old, interesting rifle, don't be afraid to give it a try. You might end up selling all your .308s and man-buns, etc. and revisit the old ways. It can really add to your experience. You also will not give up much of anything in the way of freezer filling in the end.

  10. #85

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    Brent, you are so correct, on every point, and I must admit any knowledge I have of the rifles you speak of came from listening to my husband speak about them. I never was as interested in them as he was, and therefore can not talk about them intelligently. He had a few "replicas" through the years, but I think he was only able to accumulate two originals. They were made sometime in the 1870's, maybe 80's from memory. One was a sharp and one was something called a sharp borchardt. It was fascinating to me how accurate they were.

    Thanks for the post, as you are correct, the ones you speak of are the truly old and obsolete ones

    Besides Brent, who else hunts with these wonderful old rifles/calibers ?
    Last edited by Europe; 02-11-2019 at 09:47 PM.

  11. #86
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    Sharps Borchardt also known as the model 1978. Some consider it the premier rifle made by Christian Sharps. I have one myself. Mine is a .38-55 Helms-style schuetzen target rifle, but they were made as militia rifles for North Carolina, Michigan and probably others, as well as sporting rifles. Truly far ahead of there time. Many were converted in to high pressure varmint rifles in the mid20th century.

    This one is not mine, but rather a really nice example of a midrange target rifle.


  12. #87

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    For the most part there's nothing stopping anyone from using a blast from the past if that's what they want. Brass might be hard to come by for some, but if there's a will there's usually a way. If enough interest in a particular case someone might supply it or one can start their own business.

  13. #88
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    Southwest Pa.
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    I once had an opportunity to buy a pristine Winchester 94 in 375 Win for a stupid price and I didn't buy it, a decision that still haunts me. Someday I will find a 348 Win, just to say i have it and a 7x57 in a Ruger #1 RSI has long been on my wish list.
    John

  14. #89
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    Would anyone be interested in a fine 1895 Winchester in .38-72?

    It's not mine, but I know of one that has been listed for a while.

    I failed to buy an 86 Winchester in .45-70 at a very good price once, but that does not haunt me anything like a certain Marlin 1895, .45-70.

    If anyone knows of this gun and would be wiling to share any info about it, I would love to hear about it. I have been sort of slow motion stalking it for the last 2 decades or so.


  15. #90

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    Brent, hope you get it !

    Brent, since the p.m. is not working ---Brent, unfortunately the first battery of tests did come back as hoped--will keep you posted

    375--hopefully you will see this, I will get back to you when the pm problem has been corrected

  16. #91
    Join Date
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    central pa
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    Europe,
    While not popular here i understand the 6.5X57 is still thriving overseas.

    For some reason people here think of it as a wildcat.
    A lot here think it's actually a 6.5-257 Roberts.
    Foolish, i know...

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Marquette Michigan
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    A smooth bore, my grandmother's grouse gun.

    A 44 XL.

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    Marquette Michigan
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    picture would not post

  19. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by std7mag View Post
    Europe,
    While not popular here i understand the 6.5X57 is still thriving overseas.

    For some reason people here think of it as a wildcat.
    A lot here think it's actually a 6.5-257 Roberts.
    Foolish, i know...

    yes sir, the 6.5 x 57 and 6.5 x 57R are still very popular in Europe. I have a friend in Germany ( she also is too old to hunt now ) that hunted everything in Europe with her Drilling. It was an custom made drilling from the 1950 era --double 16 gauge / single 6.5 x 57R. She also had an insert for one of the shotgun barrels ( right one from memory ) that allowed her to hunt small game also

    We had combination guns, but needless to say my husband had to have a drilling after we hunted with them the first time. Th man had rifleitis LOL
    Last edited by Europe; 02-13-2019 at 07:19 AM.

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Mexico
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    1,706

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    Europe,

    Do you still have any these wonderful old rifles? Or, they distributed through out your family? Did you have a favorite rifle or shotgun?

    Always a pleasure to read your posts and thank you for a reply.

  21. #96

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    bobbydean, thank you. As always you are very kind sir

    Yes, our son and daughter have them and they are slowly moving into the hands of our grandchildren. There are several they both want like an old handgun that was made in Spain. Double barrel that has a foldable knife on top of the barrels--small gun probably six inches long overall, triggers are exposed when each barrel is cocked-- forgot the caliber. It still worked approx 10 years ago, dont know now.

    Yes sir, without a doubt the 6.5 x 55 Swede, the 300H & H, the 375 H & H and the 450/400 N.E.. Shotgun a double barrel 12 gauge. Each were custom made to fit me and given to me by my husband usually as an anniversary gift. I have already mentioned that the shotgun was a Connecticut, but since that was not palatable to some I will not say who made the rifles, only that they were made in Germany and England.

    Obviously the pm is working as I have been asked and will respond BUT people like Brent and many others here have far moire knowledge than I

    The 6..5 x 57 Mauser ( from the 7 x 57 ) and the 6.5 x 55 Swede came along at approx the same time, before the 1900's. The 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher Schoenaur came along in the early 1900's. Yes, I like all three of them . I even liked the "combination", but never warmed up to the "drilling" But the drilling had a place in Europe where there were restrictions on the number of rifles/shotguns one could own.

    As to what I hunted with the most, without a doubt the 300 and 375 H & H. I would take them with us on nearly all business trips in the off chance that a couple of hunting days could be added to the trip. If it was a dedicated hunting trip to Africa then the 300 H & H and the 450/400. If it was a dedicated hunting trip to Sweden then the Swede and the 300 H and H. If to Argentina then the 300 H & H and the 12 gauge--however if one goes to Argentina to hunt doves, take a semi auto, your body will thank you

    As to the American made rifles before the 1900;s I will defer to Brent. If you have a specific question pm him--plus since I am new here, I am sure there are others here with this knowledge, I am just not aware of who they are, possibly Ben Lamb.

    P.S. Sorry, I forgot one of the problems with old age. IMHO there is nothing in New Zealand that can not be hunted with the 300 H & H, or Equivalent . It was the only rifle I used when there.
    Last edited by Europe; 02-13-2019 at 10:25 AM.

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Seeley Lake, Mt
    Posts
    585

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    Europe,
    Thank you for your posts I really enjoy reading them and learning about some of the firearms you and your husband used. One of your questions was regarding who else use the old style guns to hunt with. I have and have used several over the years. My first is a 1885 Highwall produced by Single Shot Inc. in Big Timber, Mt. in 45-70 aka 45 2.1. The other is a Shiloh Sharps #3 also originally chambered in 45-70 then later re chambered to 45 2.6 aka 45-100. Shiloh Sharps are also produced in Big Timber, Mt. I also have 2 other Shiloh's I use to shoot BPCR & BPTR they are in 45-70 and 40-65.

    The Highwall I have taken a Antelope with and P. dogs and gophers, The #3 I have taken several Whitetail bucks with and hopefully take an Elk with it this fall. These rifles have a certain type of class that many of the new rifles just don't have. Plus they are just plain fun to shoot especially when you use Black Powder and bullets you cast yourself.


    I look forward to reading more of your posts.


    Have a great day,
    Dan

  23. #98

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    The 6.5 rem mag blows my mind that it is not more popular today.
    " You know what Jim Bridger said about the Indians. Just when your not seeing any is about the time they are fixing to get the thickest!"

  24. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by std7mag View Post
    Europe,
    While not popular here i understand the 6.5X57 is still thriving overseas.

    For some reason people here think of it as a wildcat.
    A lot here think it's actually a 6.5-257 Roberts.
    Foolish, i know...
    I kinda wish Iíd built a 6.5x57 instead of a 6.5-257AI. I wanted the longer neck, but life would have been much simpler if Iíd gone with the 6.5x57.

    The 6.5x57 and 6.5 Rem Mag are about the right capacity for the 6.5mm bore in my opinion. Itís a shame the 6.5x55 and 6.5-284 are so much more popular.
    Last edited by ImBillT; 02-13-2019 at 12:47 PM.

  25. #100

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    I'm enjoying reading the discussion guys! Thanks for the knowledge share. I think I need to go watch Quigley Down Under now.
    Old Milwaukee Pro Staff

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