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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mthuntr View Post
    I know... (today it's the Kimber Hunter and last week it was Rem 700AWR in .300 RUM
    Get the RUM. mtmuley

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Laramie, WY
    Posts
    10,270

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    Quote Originally Posted by Millsworks View Post
    A short barrel gun carrys and handles nice in dense woods. And 22" guns aren't overly short ,so as to loose alot of velocity. But loose velocity they most certainly will.
    The Ackley Improved cartridges gain roughly 100fps on average, over their standard counter parts. A 22" barrel looses that gain verses a 24" barrel. In my experience a couple extra inches of barrel doesn't necessarily hinder a walk in the timber, but it sure adds velocity and makes that rifle a little more pleasant to shoot, due to less muzzle rise and recoil. Even a little less muzzle rise and recoil is still "less".
    To each his or her own. But the 280AI can be a handful in a short ,light rig.
    I agree on the handling, but I doubt you'd see a loss of 100 FPS in a 22 inch barrel over a 24...I would venture closer to 40-50 fps.

    As to recoil and muzzle rise, probably not worth mentioning, but you're again right that both will increase.

    What may be worth mentioning, is that in the case of a light weight rifle and thinner barrel (think #1 contour), the 22 inch barrel may gain you a bit of accuracy and a less finicky rifle. The biggest pain in the ass rifle I ever saw, was a light-weight .264 WM with a 26 inch whippy barrel. I think a lot of problems could have been fixed with that SOB, by chopping 4 inches of barrel.

    IMO, having a better handling rifle, that may shoot better with a couple inch shorter barrel, trumps another 50-60 fps gain with a longer barrel. I can spin a turret another .25-.50 MOA to make up for the lost velocity.

    Another thing to consider, is that I built 2 nearly identical 7-08's...same barrel contour, both pac-nor #2 SS super match grade, sammi specs, 700 actions, 1-9 twist...same, same. One has a 23 inch barrel, one a 24. Shooting the same 43 grains of varget, 140 accubonds, 250 mag primers, WW brass, same seating depth, same everything...the 23 inch barrel shoots that load on average about 60 FPS faster than the 24.

    If I had to do it again, I'd finish both to 22 inches.
    "...the world outside, which my brother and I soon discovered, was full of bastards, the number increasing rapidly the farther one gets from Missoula, Montana." -Norman Maclean

    "They were still so young they hadn't learned to count the odds and to sense they might owe the universe a tragedy"
    -Norman Maclean

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by VikingsGuy View Post
    ???
    Recommended twist rates are usually based on an SG of 1.5 at sea level at 60 degrees or cooler. BC’s begin to be compromised in the area of a 1.5 SG. Accuracy doesn’t usually become compromised until 1.0-1.1. Below 1.0 and you often get key holes in targets and completely unpredictable trajectory beyond very close ranges. Air density is a huge factor in stability. In a vacuum you wouldn’t need to spin a bullet. The 195 EOL gives up zero BC in a 9” Twist under most of my hunting circumstances and not enough to matter for hunting under almost any circumstances. Although the chart says 8”, a 9” is perfectly acceptable under most circumstances and more forgiving of the lighter bullets. The 8” twist would only be the better option if you knew you would be shooting the 195 EOL or similarly long bullet exclusively, and knew you would be doing so at low elevation and low temperature.

    At sea level and 16 degrees F, a 195 EOL would lose 10% of BC, but remain accurate. At 16 degrees F, but 7000’ above sea level, it loses nothing at all. An aweful lot of western hunting is done a high altitude.
    Last edited by ImBillT; 01-12-2019 at 12:06 AM.

  4. #29

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    A short barrel light gun is certainly a pleasure, but the last two years I’ve been hunting with a 30” barrel and don’t find it to be a particular hinderance in the hands. It was a hassle with a sling because the balance was off, but since switching to a gun bearer on the pack it had not been an issue. It’s really not that much longer. Of course if it was a purpose built brush gun it would be an 18” barrels 30-30, but it’s not a brush gun, and it’s not a 30-30.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In the Sagebrush of Montana
    Posts
    2,859

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    Wow this thread has really taken off. Thanks for the replies. I definitely think you guys are on track. A 22-24" barrel with a faster twist would be a great start especially with a 150 E-tip or maybe even the 169 or 177 grain Hammer Hunter bullets. Yes I would design a build around a non-lead bullet I'm gonna bug a few smiths about builds and see what they have to offer.

    I'm excited to have mtmuley suggest the Rem700AWR in 300RUM because I REALLY want one of those too...pushing a heavier copper bullet fast is right up my alley too...nothing to do with long range hunting just like burning powder.
    Last edited by Mthuntr; 01-12-2019 at 12:27 AM.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    central pa
    Posts
    414

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    Oh, why didn't you say so to begin with...
    338 Lapua Magnum, and 338-378 Weatherby burn more than a RUM does.

    And if you really want to burn powder, than something from the Lazeroni line is even better.

    Just a reminder on the 280/280AI. They are not the same as a 7mm Rem Mag, as some would have you believe.

  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mthuntr View Post

    I'm excited to have mtmuley suggest the Rem700AWR in 300RUM because I REALLY want one of those too...pushing a heavier copper bullet fast is right up my alley too...nothing to do with long range hunting just like burning powder.
    I didn't get to finish loading with them before hunting season, but was getting 3300 and change with the 181 Hammer, and just about 3100 with the 199. I bet there is at least another 100fps there for both bullets. mtmuley

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Southwest Florida
    Posts
    142

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    I would keep the 270 unmolested and look for a used Kimber Montana that is a proven shooter.
    Those seem to sell for $800-900 if I recall correctly. Maybe someone here has one they would sell.
    I never been able to justify rebarrelling a rifle just to change caliber over buying another rifle. If its your favorite custom rifle that has a ton of goodies on it already and you cant live without and its shot out then maybe. But to each his own. Money wise none of what we do makes much sense. LOL.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    central pa
    Posts
    414

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    When my Stevens 200 in 7mm-08AI barrel was "shot out", i couldn't pass up the over run special for an E.R. Shaw barrel in 250 Savage. 24", polished, blued for $100.

    Even the barrel for my 284 Win on my commercial Mauser was $272.
    That is their 1.5 contour, 24", polished, blued, with recessed 11 degree crown, delivered to my door.

    Kinda hard to find a rifle for that price.
    I already own a barrel vise, and action wrench.
    Rented head space gages from 4D Reamer Rentals.

    Big plus was not having to buy another base, rings, scope, bipod, trigger.

  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImBillT View Post
    Recommended twist rates are usually based on an SG of 1.5 at sea level at 60 degrees or cooler. BC’s begin to be compromised in the area of a 1.5 SG. Accuracy doesn’t usually become compromised until 1.0-1.1. Below 1.0 and you often get key holes in targets and completely unpredictable trajectory beyond very close ranges. Air density is a huge factor in stability. In a vacuum you wouldn’t need to spin a bullet. The 195 EOL gives up zero BC in a 9” Twist under most of my hunting circumstances and not enough to matter for hunting under almost any circumstances. Although the chart says 8”, a 9” is perfectly acceptable under most circumstances and more forgiving of the lighter bullets. The 8” twist would only be the better option if you knew you would be shooting the 195 EOL or similarly long bullet exclusively, and knew you would be doing so at low elevation and low temperature.

    At sea level and 16 degrees F, a 195 EOL would lose 10% of BC, but remain accurate. At 16 degrees F, but 7000’ above sea level, it loses nothing at all. An aweful lot of western hunting is done a high altitude.
    Thanks for the lesson!
    Freedom Is Not Free

  11. #36

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    Or you could just up date what you have. Which is what I did on my rifle took it apart and dropped it off and had it Cerkote in Burnt Bronze and put a HS Precision Stock on glass bedded it. I wanted a all weather rifle. For all the talk of long range hunting most of my shots are not, and I could be happy with a .270 Win. with Nosler AB. For what it's worth if I rebarrled I would go with a 26 inch barrel as I don't like short barrels. Hope You find what you are looking for.
    Model 70 XTR .264 Win Mag. Name:  image.jpeg
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  12. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In the Sagebrush of Montana
    Posts
    2,859

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    wow that looks nice!

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    EOM Western Colorado
    Posts
    161

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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaHunter View Post
    These words confuse me .

    Economically, the rebarrel is going to cost just as much as the Kimber Hunter. Having 2 rifles v. 1 > than the cost of a scope.....
    I was thinking the same thing, spend all the money on a new rifle and end up with two rifles.
    Hasbean

  14. #39

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    Three keys to accuracy, Bullets Barrel & Bedding. I would upgrade myself to a new match barrel, instead of another safe queen.
    But a Man needs more than one rifle, I once had a O ring starting to come out of my rifle scope couple weeks before heading out to Montana Deer Hunting, pulled another out of safe and went hunting.
    Good Lucky with what every you decide.

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