Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 84
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    13,313

    Default U.S. supreme Court case - Big decision ahead

    Arguments in the Herrera case were heard by the US Supreme Court today. Depending on how the court rules, this case could be the biggest issue to affect conservation and hunting as anything in a long time.


    https://www.supremecourt.gov/search....ic/17-532.html
    My name is Randy Newberg and I approved this post. What is written is my opinion, and my opinion only.

    "Hunt when you can. You're gonna run outta health before you run outta money."

  2. #2

    Default

    Thanks for the heads up. I will be following.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In the Sagebrush of Montana
    Posts
    2,861

    Default

    This is complicated. My naivety of treaties and how they should apply to the 21st Century has my head spinning. I hope this one ends up siding with WY and the US Gov't such to prevent destruction and uncontrolled harvest of the public's wildlife resource. However 150+ years long breaking of treaties has destroyed an important culture of Native Americans.
    Last edited by Mthuntr; 01-08-2019 at 02:31 PM.

  4. Default

    Interesting situation, seems like a battle of definitions. Unfortunately, I can see that if this goes a certain way, a lot of herd management plans could be derailed. I feel Native Americans should be afforded some privileges when it comes to hunting/fishing/gathering, but the way that treaty from the 1800's was written just doesn't fit with how wildlife need to be conserved and managed today. Interesting case to follow!

  5. #5

    Default

    Slippery slope for sure.

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kbbond View Post
    Interesting situation, seems like a battle of definitions. Unfortunately, I can see that if this goes a certain way, a lot of herd management plans could be derailed. I feel Native Americans should be afforded some privileges when it comes to hunting/fishing/gathering, but the way that treaty from the 1800's was written just doesn't fit with how wildlife need to be conserved and managed today. Interesting case to follow!
    I would like to know what privileges they should have? They get to hunt/fish on their reservations year round. Seems like a privilege to me. But hey, what do i know. Part of the problem with that privilege is some reservations have very little game species left.

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mtguy View Post
    I would like to know what privileges they should have? They get to hunt/fish on their reservations year round. Seems like a privilege to me. But hey, what do i know. Part of the problem with that privilege is some reservations have very little game species left.
    Getting to hunt year-round on native lands..That seems like a good privilege to me that the vast majority do not get. i wasn't offering that they should have free reign over all lands and wildlife at all times however, no one should given the status of humans and wildlife today

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Bitterroot Valley, MT
    Posts
    1,945
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I've been following this closely.

    In western MT, the Salish-Kootenai have rights from the Hellgate Treaty that allows them off reservation hunting and fishing on their native lands that are federal. This has been an issue since I was a kid with what has been perceived from non "native" hunters as destructive and unregulated. There have been attempts from FWP and the tribe to work together, but largely I haven't seen anything to speak of.

    I also think many are very uninformed about natives, the history before white expansion and how they interacted. This resource is a great place to start: https://www.amazon.com/Earth-Weeping.../dp/0307958043


    Perhaps it is time to revisit these treaties.
    "There are no words that can tell the hidden spirit of the wilderness, that can reveal its mystery, its melancholy, and its charm." ~TR

    "He was a mighty hunter before the Lord." ~Genesis 10:9

  9. Default

    Here in Canada, hunting, trapping and fishing is a treaty right that is enjoyed by many Indigenous people. I'll reserve sharing my own opinions on the impact that it has had, because I don't feel sufficiently informed on the harvest levels and impacts. I will say that there is some significant tension, particularly in areas where increased public access (i.e. roads where there were none previously). A lot of finger pointing and some pretty racist sentiments if you visit some of our hunting forums and search the subject. There are those that abuse the right, but typically those who weren't raised with traditional values that teach respect for the resource.

    Our moose numbers are hurting, but its not clear what the root cause is. My own thought is simply a combination of factors - poor regulation of the moose hunt, both treaty based and non-native, and the political impact that cutting tag numbers might have. The calf hunt for sure. Brainworm from expanding deer range. Predation has been fairly constant over the years, and I don't really buy the spring bear hunt argument (although I'm in favour of the spring hunt).

    I no longer apply for moose tags here, but if we had a preference point system I would. We have a party hunt that favours large groups, and I don't care to hunt with more than one or two friends at the most.

    Here is an interesting article: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbu...ario-1.4374646

    I'm not sure how similarly this would play out in the United States, and your treaty relationship is significantly different than ours. But I will continue to follow this and am very interested in how it plays out.
    Last edited by pgidley; 01-08-2019 at 03:10 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    MT —> AZ
    Posts
    1,669

    Default

    For all the bitching on this forum we all take part in about Montana’s managing of the Custer, we will consider this the golden years if it becomes a de facto extension of Cheyenne and Crow land in regards to hunting and wildlife populations.
    “To me, if you don’t eat it, then it’s not a point of pride”. -Matt Rinella

  11. #11

  12. #12

    Default

    I don't know why I'm surprised by that, but WTF?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Fort Peck, MT
    Posts
    1,667

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MTGomer View Post
    For all the bitching on this forum we all take part in about Montana’s managing of the Custer, we will consider this the golden years if it becomes a de facto extension of Cheyenne and Crow land in regards to hunting and wildlife populations.
    I'm thinking there might be a few more Breaks sheep harvested each year as well.
    "I'll put some whiskey into my whiskey"

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MTGomer View Post
    For all the bitching on this forum we all take part in about Montana’s managing of the Custer, we will consider this the golden years if it becomes a de facto extension of Cheyenne and Crow land in regards to hunting and wildlife populations.
    I could very well see that happening. Be curious to know how national parks are factored in.

  15. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MTGomer View Post
    For all the bitching on this forum we all take part in about Montana’s managing of the Custer, we will consider this the golden years if it becomes a de facto extension of Cheyenne and Crow land in regards to hunting and wildlife populations.
    And the sheep of the breaks could start falling like house flies

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Wenatchee
    Posts
    1,385

    Default

    I bit more info/background/preview: http://www.scotusblog.com/2019/01/ar...supreme-court/
    Elitist Hunter

    "Never let schooling [work] get in the way of your education" - Mark Twain

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Southwest Washington
    Posts
    58

    Default

    Watch out...The next thing you know the State and the Tribes are "Co- Managers" of the natural resources. After this happens things really go south in a hurry for non tribal Hunters and Fisherman.
    Just look at Washington.

  18. #18

    Default

    Most of the West is inhabited now so that may be the basis for a court ruling that restricts what lands are open to hunting that is not controlled by a particular state. I always thought that if the Feds want to continue the Endangered Species Act then you have to have state-level control of wildlife with Fed oversight when a species is threatened.

    Allowing harvest in addition to what a state manages for could push a species towards being threatened or endangered. For example, bighorn sheep along Snake River in Idaho and mountain goat in Cascades of Oregon get hammered currently by hunters that are beyond the control of those states. Harvesting an extra dozen rams and billies a year would push both populations towards threatened.

  19. #19

    Default

    Rooting for the state on this one.

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mtguy View Post
    And the sheep of the breaks could start falling like house flies
    I would bet they would be all but gone in a matter of months.

    I'm really hoping the state of wyoming prevails in this.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Northern Illinois
    Posts
    580

    Default

    A lot of points would be getting dumped in a hurry that's for sure.
    "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."

    -Theodore Roosevelt

  22. #22

    Default

    The 10th circuit court has a reversal rate of less than 10%. Good chance that SCOTUS doesn’t overturn the previous ruling

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trial153 View Post
    The 10th circuit court has a reversal rate of less than 10%. Good chance that SCOTUS doesn’t overturn the previous ruling
    I am not sure what time window you are using, but the 10th circuit was reversed 60% of the time from 2006-2015 (Table 2 of https://scholarship.kentlaw.iit.edu/...&context=ckjip) and 2007-2017 (https://ballotpedia.org/Ballotpedia_..._appeals_court).
    Freedom Is Not Free

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    MT —> AZ
    Posts
    1,669

    Default

    Nothing says good subsistence eats like a January Bighorn recovering from the rut alongside the highway at Gardiner.
    “To me, if you don’t eat it, then it’s not a point of pride”. -Matt Rinella

  25. #25

    Default

    So,non resident Indians will be able to go into designated wilderness in Wyoming without a guide? WYBGO will over rule the Supreme Court...

    If they want to go by game management from the 1880 they need to go back to the TOOLS they had to havrvest the game in the 1880. Stickbows and horses. No trucks and no long range smokeless powder rifles; not even the 94 Winchester.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •