NPR opinion piece on hunting

Seems like some decent PR for hunters and hunting. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...on-what-my-dad-and-i-learned-in-hunting-class

I think it also, jives with the video I saw in Outdoor Life the other day on hunter recruitment (https://www.facebook.com/outdoorlife/videos/10155346134926021/?t=0). Mentor programs being a critical piece, without them people like the author of the NPR article, even if they continue to want to try hunting, are likely to not follow through or to encounter too many hurdles.

I think there is a strong argument to be made that if you care about the future of our sport one of the best things you can do is to take someone who doesn't look like you or think like you hunting.

"Locavore". Learned a new word for my vocabulary. Bet Harley hasn't used this one yet!

I did not have a parent, or a workshop/class/program, or a mentor. I just went out and did it. Failed. Tried again. Some kids had parents that helped them and that was great, but many didn't and yet they got after it on their own, one way or another. Does anyone learn anything by trial and error on their own anymore? I say that, but I do take first timers to the range and the field many times, but I wonder if some of them (most of them) will ever be able to roll on their own once the training wheels come off. I don't see the interest or the passion in most. It is more like something on their check list that needs doing so they can say they have done it. Or a short-term fad in something that has nice fashionable lingo (like locavore) and all the trappings to go with it.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but it seems that everything requires mentors, special programs, and so forth. The great thing about hunting, trapping, fishing and a lot of other activities is making it up as you go and figuring it out. That doesn't mean not asking questions of others, and learning from others, but a little more self reliance would go a long ways in many endeavors.

Sorry, hand-holding is just a pet peeve of mine.

BrentD fair point... but do you think because those individuals had that experience they will think about hunting/shooting sports differently. I think the PR aspect is as important as creating life long hunters.

I taught mogul skiing for years out of the all kids I worked with only made it to the Olympics and only a couple are still involved with the sport that doesn't mean all the rest didn't learn a sport and skills that will stick with them their whole lives. You are a professor how many of your students actually work in the your field, how many probably took something away from your course that will stick with them the rest of their lives.

BrentD said:

I did not have a parent, or a workshop/class/program, or a mentor. I just went out and did it. Failed. Tried again. Some kids had parents that helped them and that was great, but many didn't and yet they got after it on their own, one way or another. Does anyone learn anything by trial and error on their own anymore? I say that, but I do take first timers to the range and the field many times, but I wonder if some of them (most of them) will ever be able to roll on their own once the training wheels come off. I don't see the interest or the passion in most. It is more like something on their check list that needs doing so they can say they have done it. Or a short-term fad in something that has nice fashionable lingo (like locavore) and all the trappings to go with it.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but it seems that everything requires mentors, special programs, and so forth. The great thing about hunting, trapping, fishing and a lot of other activities is making it up as you go and figuring it out. That doesn't mean not asking questions of others, and learning from others, but a little more self reliance would go a long ways in many endeavors.

Sorry, hand-holding is just a pet peeve of mine.

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You yell at kids to get off your lawn too right?

Sure. It's good. I don't really want to sound so damn negative. I'm just a little frustrated with this model of learning. It has become an crutch or an excuse for many. It gets deeper when the mentor has to be "relatable" in all those currently fashionable ways. But it is better than nothing if nothing is, indeed, the only other alternative. And the PR certainly does not hurt in the slightest. I'll cheer up. I promise

SnowyMountaineer said:

You yell at kids to get off your lawn too right?

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I probably would today, but maybe not tomorrow.

I think the gap between entry and proficiency has widened a bit since you started Brent.

Mentor programs are great but what we need is sportsman making real connections with people on an individual bases and promote hunting in a positive light and get new people out in the woods. Take your co-worker, the kid down the street, just get out there!

I just happened to have read that piece this morning when it came up somehow in my newsfeed, and the article progressed predictably like many similar ones, and I skimmed up until this,,,,,

"I still have that sense, when I walk up to an animal that I just shot, of sorrow and deep respect for that animal, I think if you don't have that, there's something wrong with you."

That was an instructor from Idaho Fish and Game quoted. My kid just shot our private land safety elk yesterday afternoon, and I guess there must be something wrong with all three of us who were there. Speaking for myself I was marveling at what a big cow it was, and was thankful that my kid made a good shot, and I was wondering how far we'd have to drag it to get it close enough to winch. Now I'm an unapologetic meat hunter, who supports all other types of hunting, predator, trophy, whatever, but I take exception to being told I have to have the right kind of feeling when I see an elk go down. Sorrow!!!??? You gotta be kidding me. I spent eleven fruitless days walking in the snow in November chasing the herd on the slim patches of public land. Sorrow? no. I was pretty dog gone glad.

SnowyMountaineer said:

You yell at kids to get off your lawn too right?

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Used to. Now I just hope they trample the crabgrass

one ate E grain said:

I just happened to have read that piece this morning when it came up somehow in my newsfeed, and the article progressed predictably like many similar ones, and I skimmed up until this,,,,,

"I still have that sense, when I walk up to an animal that I just shot, of sorrow and deep respect for that animal, I think if you don't have that, there's something wrong with you."

That was an instructor from Idaho Fish and Game quoted. My kid just shot our private land safety elk yesterday afternoon, and I guess there must be something wrong with all three of us who were there. Speaking for myself I was marveling at what a big cow it was, and was thankful that my kid made a good shot, and I was wondering how far we'd have to drag it to get it close enough to winch. Now I'm an unapologetic meat hunter, who supports all other types of hunting, predator, trophy, whatever, but I take exception to being told I have to have the right kind of feeling when I see an elk go down. Sorrow!!!??? You gotta be kidding me. I spent eleven fruitless days walking in the snow in November chasing the herd on the slim patches of public land. Sorrow? no. I was pretty dog gone glad.

Click to expand...

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."-F. Scott Fitzgerald

I think one can be simultaneously excited about the meat on their table, ebullient about a successful stalk, sorrowful about the loss of a life, and thoughtful about the fragility of our existence.

wllm1313 said:

I think one can be simultaneously excited about the meat on their table, ebullient about a successful stalk, sorrowful about the loss of a life, and thoughtful about the fragility of our existence.

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That is not what he was saying.

belly-deep said:

That is not what he was saying.

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True, it may not have been exactly what he was saying, and true, the statement made by the ID G&F Instructor may have been too "absolute" in nature, but I would be curious to know what the other two hunters (his son and....?) felt. I for sure know the first deer I shot at age 12 vs. the last animal I shot this season created different reactions in me. A bittersweet feeling mixed with excitement, relief....all of it happened then, and does now. Just differently.


Regarding the comment about mentoring or group/one on one instruction being a 'crutch', I have to respectfully disagree. Many times, the introduction and instruction, when done correctly, creates a much higher retention rate for a person, regardless of the activity. My 7 year old son takes skiing lessons; he is so far ahead of where he was when I tried to teach him (frustrated dad, frustrated son), and as a youngster, trying to learn to ski on your own is a recipe for disaster or at least a frustrated, cold, tired kid who is put off by it right away.

I spent most of my late teens and twenties rock and ice climbing. I learned firsthand via "mentors", who were patient enough to let me come along and slow them down on climbs both easy and hard. That was not a hand-holding situation at all. They wouldn't allow it. I needed to fully understand the situation, how to safely belay, rappel, build anchors, and get on, up and off the route. They were there to show me the best way, stay safe, coach through tough moves or scary sections, etc. I still climb today at 43, and I am confident I would either have quit out of frustration or fear, or be dead because I thought I knew the "right" way to rig a V-thread on an ice climb or build an anchor 200 feet up by headlamp, and when those things go wrong in climbing, people die. Not good.

As others have stated, these kind of programs (also the Montana Hunter Advancement Program is another example) can really help open the door for new hunters or those who genuinely are interested, but have no idea how to start. Hunting is a fascinating, exciting, insightful lifelong pursuit, and, frankly, for a total newbie, daunting as well. More articles like this, and more of wllm1313's idea of taking people hunting will only do us good as a whole. Just my two cents.

Those are some great comments Bozone. One of the items on my bucket list is to introduce 4 people to hunting who've never tried it and mentor them long enough to "create" hunters out of them. I excluded my kids, they're gimmes. So far I'm at two, unfortunately they're both affluent middle income white dudes, so I'm missing a few of the recommendations, but at least it's a start.

This mentoring, take a kid, take a novice, show-folks-hunting-is-cool thing is great.
But if the access, management, habitat, political climate, etc isn't addressed - you've introduced something cool to an enthusiastic newcomer something that isn't guaranteed to remain the same as they were introduced to, without a lotta' hard work invested.
Going to a PLWA meeting where the average age of attendees is about 104 years old, attending legislative hearings and commenting on legislation, being actually active in organizations vs. just belonging to and sporting their custom license plate, or engaging your comrades in uncomfortable but real conversations regarding this stuff isn't glamorous.
Least not as glamorous and enthusiastically received as posting a pic of you and a young kid you helped harvest his/her first buck - everybody loves that shit, pats on the back abound.
A photo of you arguing with a local politician about his/her stance on an issue, or a bunch of old farts sitting in some conference room discussing ways to open a public access route that some a-hole has blocked off, or your attendance at a hunting season setting meeting - standing at the mic and giving your 2 cents, won't get much attention.
But these actions just might help that newbie keep being able to do the stuff you introduced them to................

Well, I've taken two people hunting for their first times ever this year. One was a 20 something woman and the other a 50 something man... The latter shot his first pheasant yesterday, so that was fun.

I won't say "mentored" because I just think that word is overused and may or may not meet some people's expectations. But both were nonhunter, nongun owners before this, so that changed as well.

I think recruitment / mentorship is crucial to not only expose people to The Great Outdoors, but to counter the anti-hunting propaganda that is spread in the media. I founded a charity camp in 2010, in honor of my late father, which introduces families, especially inner city children, to archery, shooting, canoeing and fishing. Over the last 8 years, we have enjoyed over 300 attendees, many of which have made The Great Outdoors Experience part of their lives.