Montana contemplates shooting more cows, less bulls

Gerald Martin · Dec 10, 2018

In region 1 the public land is mountainous, heavily timbered and completely unpopulated. The private land offers pockets of sanctuary on unhuntable property and the elk have learned where they are not harassed by hunters. Wolves in this area learned quickly that interaction with humans in the lower elevations proves unhealthy for them and stick to higher elevations. Lots of gated and ungated roads make it easy for them to cover large distances. I think wolves in this area kill more deer than elk but they are very effective at killing the elk they do find wintering in the mountains. (Probably a higher percentage of bulls than cows in the winter)

The scattered herds in the valley are growing in size but the bull to cow ratio is skewed since most 2 1/2 bulls that stick with the herd are shot as soon as they cross off of rancher Bob's 250 acres on to Billy or John's 20 acres during hunting season.

Our county's human population is growing, efficiency of bows and ability to shoot longer distances in archery season, long range hunting with cross canyon shots of 600-800 yards becoming more and more common, fragmented lower elevation wintering habitat, wolves, and hunters who refuse to limit themselves in any way because "we want to kill an elk even if the herd can't handle it. We've always done it this way..."

The bright spot from FWP's perspective is Unit 121 is not over objective so I don't see much attention being focused on NW Montana anytime soon.

We have lots of public land and good access. Anyone want to ship some of those over-objective cows north?

Dieseldog · Dec 10, 2018

Killergaurd said:
I dont know. Pisses me off. How many thousands or millions of Moo cows live off of public lands at a very low cost. Seems like a conflict of interest to me. Maybe all public lands should only be for wildlife.

So you're saying you don't like to eat beef?

Dieseldog · Dec 10, 2018

Killergaurd said:
I dont know. I grew up hunting in the 90's. A time when most ranches if not all allowed hunting. Seems like elk conflict with private coincided with ranches not allowing hunting.

I think it actually coincides with out of state money coming in and buying up property. Mt hunting was sold out to CA money

belly-deep · Dec 10, 2018

tjones said:
Not to be argumentative but don’t wolves kill cattle in the open? I have heard this theory for 20 years or more and it just doesn’t add up. Also they do a whole lot of killing in the dark. Timber or open doesn’t matter at 1:00 in the morning. Also if wolves are patrolling the tree line wouldn’t that be then an easy place to find and kill wolves.

Headed down a rabbit hole here, back to topic on hand. Killing cows.

I don’t think wolves kill nearly as many cattle as they do elk. If they spent that much time in cattle country, ranchers would surely be buying more .22-250 ammo than they are now.

JEL · Dec 11, 2018

Follow up story in the IR. Doesn't sound like much will change. https://helenair.com/lifestyles/recreation/more-liberal-cow-elk-harvest-proposal-dies-before-fish-and/article_7d2fab85-c2fe-5b1d-bfb6-d723e1a7e0ca.html

Killergaurd · Dec 11, 2018

Dieseldog. I love beef over game meat. BUT for the cost of an elk licences I can get 1 great rib eye or a few pounds of burger if on sale. Sorry man iam pro elk. Burger is burger but ya can't beat a good beef steak.

WOLVES KILL THEM ALL

BigHornRam · Dec 11, 2018

Addicting said:
Nope, not at all. I posted earlier in this thread about ID’s Director and money. To think that MT Director isn’t dealing with the same issues and trying to come to the best decision on how to approach complex problems with the commission, funding, ranchers, and the public seems far fetched. I feel confident that anyone who sat down with her to have a conversation would realize that it’s a job most of us wouldn’t want. But hey, we are on the Internet so it’s ok to complain about whatever we want while we sit comfortably behind our keyboards.

Best post on this thread to date. From an out of stater no less.

Killergaurd · Dec 11, 2018

Def wolves change elk behavior. Elk def like to be in the open when wolves are around. Just from archery experience they tend not to bugle as much. Wolves should be like hunting coyotes. Very tough predator to kill.

Killergaurd · Dec 11, 2018

Oh so sad. Far as i know if u can't or are not willing to do a job then u get fired. State and federal agencies are supposed to do whats best for the public. Such as fwp, forest service, dnrc, blm.They are supose to protect and oversee land, manage are wildlife and land. We fund there jobs to do whats best for the public. If they can't then someone else can. Really its time to do whats right for the public land hunter. All the politics is bullshit

The Hedgehog · Dec 11, 2018

From the Helena air article above:

Commissioner Richard Stuker, of Chinook, advocated allowing shoulder season hunting in winter on national forest lands, where it is not currently allowed, to try and thin the elk herds even more.

Something comes to mind here -filling up a stretchy gym sock with a couple bars of dial soap and maybe a roll or two of quarters.

Nameless Range · Dec 11, 2018

Addicting said:
Nope, not at all. I posted earlier in this thread about ID’s Director and money. To think that MT Director isn’t dealing with the same issues and trying to come to the best decision on how to approach complex problems with the commission, funding, ranchers, and the public seems far fetched. I feel confident that anyone who sat down with her to have a conversation would realize that it’s a job most of us wouldn’t want. But hey, we are on the Internet so it’s ok to complain about whatever we want while we sit comfortably behind our keyboards.

No doubt it would be very difficult to be the MTFWP's Director, though I would gladly take the pay raise. The NR tags sell out because there are tens of thousands of folks across the country who wanna hunt Montana. I don't think it is tied to success or quality at all, but more to the idea of hunting Montana.

I've spoken at public meetings; I've written letters. In 2016 the results of the season setting comments had 89% of submitted comments opposed to shoulder seasons. That is 9 out of 10! And it made no difference. Elk hunting in Montana has poor success rates, poor bull-cow ratios, and largely appears to be trending downward. Many people who have a history with the state and a deep knowledge of what was and what they think could be feel like the frogs in the pot of water are already boiling.

I agree this is a complex issue with a lot of moving parts, but I for one feel the frustration and so I sit "comfortably behind" my keyboard.

BigHornRam · Dec 11, 2018

Killergaurd said:
Oh so sad. Far as i know if u can't or are not willing to do a job then u get fired. State and federal agencies are supposed to do whats best for the public. Such as fwp, forest service, dnrc, blm.They are supose to protect and oversee land, manage are wildlife and land. We fund there jobs to do whats best for the public. If they can't then someone else can. Really its time to do whats right for the public land hunter. All the politics is bullshit

And this is the worst post to date on this thread.

Poke 'Em · Dec 11, 2018

Killergaurd said:
Oh so sad. Far as i know if u can't or are not willing to do a job then u get fired. State and federal agencies are supposed to do whats best for the public. Such as fwp, forest service, dnrc, blm.They are supose to protect and oversee land, manage are wildlife and land. We fund there jobs to do whats best for the public. If they can't then someone else can. Really its time to do whats right for the public land hunter. All the politics is bullshit

I hope your job doesn't involve spelling.

bigsky2 · Dec 11, 2018

IMO, shoulder season hunting should only be allowed on private land. That's where elk are being harbored, and that's why we have areas that are way over objective. Hunting the public only adds to the problem. Additionally, places that don't allow hunting during the general season shouldn't be able to benefit from the shoulder seasons in December-February. Outfitting shouldn't be allowed during shoulder seasons either. Some places don't allow any access during the general season and make thousands off their bulls, then they turn around and charge to shoot cows during the shoulder season. Talk about abusing the system.

Killergaurd · Dec 11, 2018

Sorry for the spelling poke em. Bighornram curious why the worst post.

hank4elk · Dec 11, 2018

Sorry for my ignorance as I have not been to MT since 89',but how do those few folks hunting the ranches get tags normally? Draw? Permission slips?
Does no ranch being eaten out of house & home allow hunting during draw seasons to public? Or is it just those who lease it for themselves to hunt? And how do they get tags? Do they spent thousands & hope they draw?
Does MT have a landowner tag system or is this their idea of one. mass shootings during winter?
Just wondering. A NM landowner who works with NMG&F....

Killergaurd · Dec 11, 2018

Maybe iam mistaken but state and federal agencies in charge of public land and wildlife should or would be there job so to speak manage wildlife and public lands for the public. Sorry for spelling or grammar.

Killergaurd · Dec 11, 2018

No draw on otc. Pay to play. Trespass fee or outfitter. On LE tags landowner preference . In montana landowners cannot sell there land owner tags. In montana landowners are reimbursed loss of hay whatever.

noharleyyet · Dec 11, 2018

Your spelling's fine killerguard...bitching season is full rut. Shit guys Moosie used to run this joint...

Addicting · Dec 11, 2018

noharleyyet said:
Your spelling's fine killerguard...bitching season is full rut. Shit guys Moosie used to run this joint...

Yep, it’s going to a long winter. At least applications season is comming up and we can count on a bunch of “not your honey hole” questions.

Montana contemplates shooting more cows, less bulls

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