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AZ Super Bonus Point Proposal

Flatrock

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Anyone hear much about a new super bonus point option being floated by the AZ Game and Fish? Maybe it's already been discussed and I missed that thread... Anyways, here's a link to the page. https://www.azgfd.com/agency/dedicated-funding-source/

You have to poke around a bit to find the info. Here's my best understanding of it:

They want to create a new revenue stream for Public Awareness Education. From what I can tell, this is a new program and the reason for it is to "educate the public on why it is important to support the Commission in their effort to conserve and protect wildlife in AZ." They would like $1.5-2 million a year for it. They were looking for ideas on how to fund it and it sounds like the Arizona Wildlife Federation proposed an idea of being able to buy a super bonus point. Basically, you could pick 1 species each year where for a certain fee, probably around $15, you could buy an additional bonus point for that specie. That sounds like a terrible idea to me. If that were to happen, I don't know if there would be a better way to screw the high point holders. It's hard to know what the end effect would be for low to mid point holders, but I would assume that whichever specie you picked, your odds would probably go up a bit since you could get 2 points for that specie each year. For the other species you apply for though, I would have to assume your odds would get worse as lots of people would be buying 2 points for that specie. It's almost like you'd just be best off to pick 1 specie and just go with that. Might be a revenue loss in the end. They already had a public comment period on it and they will have a meeting in December to decide if that's what they're going to do. Looking at the responses from people, it actually looks like more people are in favor of it than oppose it.

Hopefully a few other guys will know more about this and can give some input. I might be wrong on something as well and if that's the case, please correct me.
 
If is one species per application period, rather than year, then could get 2 points for some species in spring and 2 more in fall for 4 total rather than 2 total now.

Point systems are flawed as no additional tags are created and the applicants trying for 1 in 50 odds under a random system start to complain they are getting screwed though odds say they are not due for a tag for five decades anyway. Sure, Jimmy's cousin's friend's barber drew two years in a row. That is statistics if is even true since 90% of this sort of thing is not the whole story and turns out that guy was applying for a different tag that has leftovers most years.

So, if you want to pay more money for the same amount of tags in your lifetime, you will love a point system and these @#)(#-eyed programs where you can buy a special point or a book of points like one of the Eastern states does for moose will allow you to spend even more for the same number of tags in your lifetime.

A sucker is born every minute and F&G loves that.
 
When are F&G departments going to realize that point systems are Ponzi schemes? They’re expensive to run, complicated to maintain and don’t improve draw odds.
 
I didn't start this thread as a way to complain about point systems. There are a million other threads about that.

Anyone know if this might actually go through or have any other info on it?
 
So if this goes in place you could hunt elk then the next year get a loyalty point + hunter's ed point + regular point + super bonus point... so the year after you hunt you could go back into the draw with 2pts and the next year have 4pts?

What a system.
 
Pete Cimelarro and a few others floated an idea, thru public meetings, to get tags from the dept that their new group could auction off, all in the name of education and to create a "war chest" so "they" could fight off another ballot initiative that could be detrimental to hunting (google AZSFW tag theft for a primer on how these guys work). The hunters that showed up to at least one meeting were called "ignorant" by Cimelerro when they questioned the need to have auction tags. When the 5hit finally hit the fan, the dept decided to take it to a committee, bypassing Cimelerro's group and see what they could come up with. The requirement was that the money had to be voluntary, so mandatory stamps are off the board. It also needs to generate 1 million plus. The Committee is looking at the super bonus point. A decent idea in my opinion but the glaring problem is that in it's current state, the Super Point is only good for 1 species/year. If you are a max point guy for three species, you'll drop down by 1 for two of those animals. That's not gonna work.
 
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This is the camel getting its nose under the tent type deal. I would rather them have a super bouns point than a auction tag. My points in Utah are trash because of the auction tags. I really hope AZ can keep the bonus point idea vs auction option. I would pay $100 for an extra point every year.
 
I guess my initial thought is why complicate an already confusing system with a "super bonus point". We already have "hunter ed bonus" and "loyalty bonus" points. Wouldn't it be easier to just increase application fees $1.5-2 across the board?

If they do go through with the super bonus point they should regulate so one can only apply that super bonus point to an individual species once every 4 or 5 years. That way everyone can equally add points to their sheep, deer, elk and antelope draws.
 
They have been trying to scam some tags for USO, SFW and the new education group for years. We have done fairly well at causing them some indigestion. Cimellaro always has his nose under the skirts of G&F so he is one to watch. I suggested having a habitat stamp for $5 a year to fund education and they kind of ignored the idea. That would generate more than a few tags could ever raise and would be painless to us as hunters.
 
Better thing to do is tell Pete Cimellaro to pound sand and quit believing in fairy tales.

He's a burned out SFW supporter who pushed for auction tags in AZ, got his hands slapped, and now thinks a couple million bucks is necessary to fight the "anti's".

Hey Pete, hold a bake-sale...

I can assure you, the end game with that clown, is 100% about getting more auction tags.
 
SUPER bonus point? Who even makes this stuff up?

So would this point stay with you or would it just be for the current year?

I will say it's a better option than stealing tags to auction off.
 
Pete Cimelarro and a few others floated an idea, thru public meetings, to get tags from the dept that their new group could auction off, all in the name of education and to create a "war chest" so "they" could fight off another ballot initiative that could be detrimental to hunting (google AZSFW tag theft for a primer on how these guys work). The hunters that showed up to at least one meeting were called "ignorant" by Cimelerro when they questioned the need to have auction tags. When the 5hit finally hit the fan, the dept decided to take it to a committee, bypassing Cimelerro's group and see what they could come up with. The requirement was that the money had to be voluntary, so mandatory stamps are off the board. It also needs to generate 1 million plus. The Committee is looking at the super bonus point. A decent idea in my opinion but the glaring problem is that in it's current state, the Super Point is only good for 1 species/year. If you are a max point guy for three species, you'll drop down by 1 for two of those animals. That's not gonna work.


Was the idea of a raffle, like what Wyoming does, get brought up? That would be voluntary money and probably a lot of participation.
 
We need less points in the system not more. I would rather see an across the board application fee increase to keep the baseline equal
 
I didn't start this thread as a way to complain about point systems. There are a million other threads about that.

Anyone know if this might actually go through or have any other info on it?

You are looking for facts and facts only on a state-specific matter yet are posting on a general Western states hunting forum known for meandering threads with lots of opinions. A hunting forum where likely less than 5% of the active participants call AZ home and of those perhaps a dozen might any real facts to offer on what is likely a backroom process so those dozen may not be forthcoming.

You also want the thread to not go places other than where you want it to go. Good luck with this thread and any others. If you can herd cats then you will do great keeping a thread fenced in as you desire.

I hat point systems. Oops.
 
Better thing to do is tell Pete Cimellaro to pound sand and quit believing in fairy tales.

He's a burned out SFW supporter who pushed for auction tags in AZ, got his hands slapped, and now thinks a couple million bucks is necessary to fight the "anti's".

Hey Pete, hold a bake-sale...

I can assure you, the end game with that clown, is 100% about getting more auction tags.

I've known Pete for over 30 years. He has done a lot for the hunting community both in AZ and nationally, however he's barking up the wrong tree in this instance. GJ
 
You are looking for facts and facts only on a state-specific matter yet are posting on a general Western states hunting forum known for meandering threads with lots of opinions. A hunting forum where likely less than 5% of the active participants call AZ home and of those perhaps a dozen might any real facts to offer on what is likely a backroom process so those dozen may not be forthcoming.

You also want the thread to not go places other than where you want it to go. Good luck with this thread and any others. If you can herd cats then you will do great keeping a thread fenced in as you desire.

I hat point systems. Oops.

How silly of me to think that could people might contribute to a conversation rather than just b*itch and moan. Guess my expectations are too high.
 

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