Hey all, I'm looking into a new scope, specifically a Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10x40, for my Weatherby Vanguard S2 7mm mag. I'm wondering what peoples thoughts are on a BDC vs a CDS. I currently have a BDC and it works well for my purposes. I'm leaning this way on the new scope mainly because I'm familiar with it and I won't be shooting more than 400 yards at anything living. Anybody see a reason to go CDS? I like that all you have in the scope is a duplex reticle, but it seems like a little too much going on having to turn the turret in the heat of the moment. Any insight either way would be awesome. I'm sure this has been covered before so if anyone has a link that would be great too! Thanks as always.
BDC or CDS system??
- Thread starter nrpate05
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Addicting
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BDC, under 400 with a 7 Rem Mag doesn’t warrant needing CDS.
CForest
Active member
I love my cds, but for under 400 I would honestly just go with a regular duplex. BDC has some side effects as well, if you go that route make sure you understand how zoom levels can affect it.
ImBillT
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BDC. I prefer to hunt with a scope whose knobs cannot be turned by accident. Exposed knobs are risky. I don’t trust a scope to go where I dial it. Especially on the first shot. Even $4k March scopes. I’ve seen too many animals missed after watching someone dial a knob. There are some specialty mounts that allow you to mount two scopes, sight them in on the same place, do some shooting and then see if they still agree. If they’re good, they will. Then you start dialing one and see what happens. Even amount the top scope brands what is revealed is that itboften takes 1-3 shots for the POA to match POI. It also frequently exposes tracking issues that weren’t apparent using normal tracking tests.
My only experience with a turret was with something subpar to the cds. I've considered the cds.
I've grown pretty happy with the LR reticles on my scopes. There are more exact looking 'bdc' out there. I definitely wish mine had windage hashes at least. Even the custom shop seems limited on this one for me. Perhaps they want me to pony up for their newer scopes.
But the LR is definitely the simple hunting version. I have not had a hard time getting the dots to line up close to key yardage on three rifles with either a 1 or 2 hundred yard zero. It's amazing just how similarly they actually hit. Now I'm going to site it in at my preferred range and just remember that my dots are at 280 and 360 and within 2 inches at 300 and 350. Yeah 280 and 360 don't look as clean as 200 and 300 where I could get it inside .5 inch or so but does it really matter? I like 200 yard zero.
Ps: LR lines well with 200 yard zero on .300 180 gr,
243 100 gr., and even .308 150 gr superformance. Works well with standard .308 with 100 yard zero. This is only if you care about having the dots line up at 100 yard increments.
I've grown pretty happy with the LR reticles on my scopes. There are more exact looking 'bdc' out there. I definitely wish mine had windage hashes at least. Even the custom shop seems limited on this one for me. Perhaps they want me to pony up for their newer scopes.
But the LR is definitely the simple hunting version. I have not had a hard time getting the dots to line up close to key yardage on three rifles with either a 1 or 2 hundred yard zero. It's amazing just how similarly they actually hit. Now I'm going to site it in at my preferred range and just remember that my dots are at 280 and 360 and within 2 inches at 300 and 350. Yeah 280 and 360 don't look as clean as 200 and 300 where I could get it inside .5 inch or so but does it really matter? I like 200 yard zero.
Ps: LR lines well with 200 yard zero on .300 180 gr,
243 100 gr., and even .308 150 gr superformance. Works well with standard .308 with 100 yard zero. This is only if you care about having the dots line up at 100 yard increments.
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std7mag
Well-known member
I haven't found a BDC that matched up to my Rem Mag yet.
I would go CDS. Use your chrono, get you velocity, then shoot 600-800 yards to true your velocity.
Oh, and don't think about switching loads after you put the CDS on. It will be off.
I like an MOA reticle, with exposed MOA turrets myself.
I would go CDS. Use your chrono, get you velocity, then shoot 600-800 yards to true your velocity.
Oh, and don't think about switching loads after you put the CDS on. It will be off.
I like an MOA reticle, with exposed MOA turrets myself.
BuzzH
Well-known member
brnsvllyjohn
Active member
I like the BDC system. I think it is faster and you don't have to dial anything in. I have seen hunters miss because they were in too much of a hurry after dialing and worrying about the exact range. On my 7 mag the scope does not work out to be exactly 300, 400 and 500 yards but being off by 10-20 yards at those distances is almost meaningless when shooting at deer sized game. I have only been able to shoot to 500 on paper and when using my 500 yard reticle I was 3 inches high. I can live with that. I don't plan on taking a 500 yard shot but I do like to know where I would hit if I need a follow up shot for whatever reason. Game animals don't stand at even numbered ranges. You might have to apply a little common sense on your aim point when the animal isn't exactly at the distance your scope reticle matches but you need to do a little of that anyway with the angle of the shot, the elevation or the wind. Still better than what we all used to do by holding 15-20 inches higher than the vitals at 400 (depending on cartridge). Holding a little high with simple old school crosshairs has certainly worked for years for most of us if you want to stay with a standard reticle.
Yes you have to pay attention to your magnification setting but it is very easy to do that. I have had the BDC system on my 7 mag for 4 years now and have not taken a shot at an animal past 220 yards so I haven't even utilized it except at the range. This years deer was only 200 yards away and last years was less than 100. Sometimes I wonder why I even took my old school Vari X III off that gun. ???
Yes you have to pay attention to your magnification setting but it is very easy to do that. I have had the BDC system on my 7 mag for 4 years now and have not taken a shot at an animal past 220 yards so I haven't even utilized it except at the range. This years deer was only 200 yards away and last years was less than 100. Sometimes I wonder why I even took my old school Vari X III off that gun. ???
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TheDudeAbides
Well-known member
Why not go with the Burris Eliminator 3 laser scope?
Sure it weighs 45 lbs, but all you have to do is press a button and a dot lights up telling you where to shoot.
This is entirely legit especially under 300. You want to consider your bdc at max.power though since you will be shooting past 200 anyways. I think the bdc is a good compromise but obviously some arent.going to.compromise and go completely with the duplex or.the turret.
Thanks for all the responses! I'm thinking I won't go CDS, but a few of you have got me thinking about just going with the regular Duplex reticle! Decisions, decisions. Anyway, for those that use this what distance are you zeroing for? Zero for 300 and hold a bit high at 400? I suppose I could go with the duplex and get a CDS system down the line if I think I need it.
I'm wrestling with the same decision right now. I like the sexy CDS but don't know that I am willing to spend enough to get a system I trust or shoot often enough to trust it. I'm probably go with a BDC. I'm happy with that set up on my muzzleloader. May take some more leg work in the beginning to drill down POI for each mark and I doubt you'll get exact increments like 100, 150, 200, 250, etc. I think it would be better for my situation too since it would be possible to have distances worked out for different bullet weights shot out of the same gun/scope combo.
brnsvllyjohn
Active member
I have always used a 200 yard zero. The ballistics charts help a lot but you really should shoot at paper as a double check on the drop at whatever ranges you are willing to shoot. For me a backbone + a couple of inches hold at 400 yards worked well. Bullet drops around 15-17 inches and hits the lower half of the chest.
I settled on a 200 yard zero after hitting a little high on deer inside 200 yards when using a zero more than 200. Most of my deer have been taken between 150 and 250 yards in 50 years of hunting.
Just because I am old and forgetful I do have a cheat sheet on my guns for various ranges.
I settled on a 200 yard zero after hitting a little high on deer inside 200 yards when using a zero more than 200. Most of my deer have been taken between 150 and 250 yards in 50 years of hunting.
Just because I am old and forgetful I do have a cheat sheet on my guns for various ranges.
kylemcintyre67
Well-known member
I prefer using point blank range with a duplex reticle and the appropriate zero to maximize it. It makes the zero process simple and once you understand how to utilize it. With a proper zero all you need to do is put your cross hair on the target and it will hit inside the vital region out to 300. Once you sort out the best load for your rifle, you can utilize the point blank calculator at: http://www.shooterscalculator.com/point-blank-range.php
I don't have chronometer, nor do I do any reloading, plugging the factory data into the calculator has always done well for me.
I don't have chronometer, nor do I do any reloading, plugging the factory data into the calculator has always done well for me.
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CForest
Active member
Also keep in mind a regular duplex essentially has a "built in" bdc system with the difference in thickness of the crosshair. At 400 yards you would I don't think you would ever use anything past the first part of the bdc anyways. Depending on caliber, load, elevation etc a 200 yd zero wont be much over the back in regards to a holdover, that may even equate to using the change in size on the crosshair?? Food for thought at least. Also with Kenton you can make most scopes into a "cds" system down the road.
Schaaf
Well-known member
As in the turret moves from zero or the scope doesn’t return to zero? This is something I’ve noticed myself with the VX3 and VX2 models
The turret shifts from zero.
AggieOutlaw
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I haven't had problems with my CDS turning inadvertently...but I leave a neoprene scope cover on mine while hunting 90% of the time.
To be honest, I've never needed the CDS. Almost all my shots are at point blank. I'll dial for 250-275 zero and can hit +/- 3" out past 300. The advantage of the CDS (mine is actually just an MOA exposed turret) is you can get very accurate long range. It's fun for long range target shooting but I don't use it for hunting.
Likewise, you can get "accurate enough" with a BDC. Unless I really practiced, I wouldn't trust the reticle to be accurate past 400 yards. At that point, it doesn't offer much advantage to a simple duplex zeroed at 275.
I now tend towards simpler things. Less gadgets or gizmos or gimmicks.
To be honest, I've never needed the CDS. Almost all my shots are at point blank. I'll dial for 250-275 zero and can hit +/- 3" out past 300. The advantage of the CDS (mine is actually just an MOA exposed turret) is you can get very accurate long range. It's fun for long range target shooting but I don't use it for hunting.
Likewise, you can get "accurate enough" with a BDC. Unless I really practiced, I wouldn't trust the reticle to be accurate past 400 yards. At that point, it doesn't offer much advantage to a simple duplex zeroed at 275.
I now tend towards simpler things. Less gadgets or gizmos or gimmicks.
I think you guys have convinced me to just go with the standard duplex. Looking at the ballistics chart a 250 yard zero would only be about 3-4" low at 300 (Obviously needs field verification). A kill shot any day. At 400, it'll be about 14" low. This being primarily and elk gun, that means I can still hold on fur and make a lethal hit. Plus the scope is almost $200 cheaper than the BDC version.
