Public Land Access via Railroad tracks?

This may be a stupid question, because I'm pretty sure walking down RR tracks is illegal. BUT, what about walking down the RR easement from a county road to public land? Is it technically legal? Complete No-no? This is in Montana if it matters.

Side question, where does MT draw the line with "two track" roads being considered access?

Thanks

As far as I know walking down the easement is considered trespassing

I would contact the local roads dept, BLM, FS, and DNRC to find out if a two track is public and (if it passes through private) has an easement. There are too many variables to know exactly. Even the agencies may not officially know

That is what I was thinking as well, unfortunately. Just looking for roundabout ways to get into public lands. Legally of course

It is interesting that OnX does not show tracks as private where they cross BLM.

I also wonder about crossing under tracks where they bridge over washes or where there have been underpasses built for livestock. Though the land would still be railroad, would this be any different than when crossing tracks on a county road? I think not. But I really don't know.

That is interesting. I just pulled up my OnX and some are marked as private and some aren't. Makes me wonder how current/accurate it truly is. Do you have any input on the laws for two track roads? Do they have to be previous county roads?

I couldnt point hou to the law, but their right of ways are still private and therefore not accessible. As to crossing a railroad on BLM, I would notnsee thay as a conflict. Id have tonresearch that though.

Railroad grade easements and ownership are confusing. I know, because I have an old railroad grade running through my land.

Railroads do hold title to some of their grades, and are actively selling them in the area I live. This is happening right now. Sometimes they have easement. In the case of the grade through my land, the railroad held an easement in gross(as opposed to an easement appurtenant). So the easement was attached to the entity of the railroad, and when the tracks were ripped out and the company went belly up, the easement expired and the property through which it ran(mine) went back to state zero.

That's how it was explained to me anyway. Just know that railroad easements are not legal accesses. Whether or not a two track road is a legal access is contingent on the travel plans of the management structure around that two track, the history of the two track, where it is located etc.... Each one may be different.

Thanks for the information on the two track roads. Is there a way to access historical roads or uses for these? I'm still pretty new to Montana and trying to go above and beyond to find harder to access areas that the typical guy won't go and research.

I love questions like these on internet forums.
There are official sources to get these answers from.
I know guys with an ONX enabled phone or GPS in their hand have, on occasion, been handed a ticket in the other hand.
As for telling an LEO that "this is what the guys on the internet said", well, lemme' know how it works out.............

onpoint said:

I love questions like these on internet forums.
There are official sources to get these answers from.
I know guys with an ONX enabled phone or GPS in their hand have, on occasion, been handed a ticket in the other hand.
As for telling an LEO that "this is what the guys on the internet said", well, lemme' know how it works out.............

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You know, platforms like OnX get their information from what are usually the 'official' sources...

Once again, tell that to a Deputy Sheriff or warden.

There are hierarchies of infallibility in this country when it comes to R/W and land law/rights. And right above the federal government, alone at the top-are railroads

MTGomer said:

There are hierarchies of infallibility in this country when it comes to R/W and land law/rights. And right above the federal government, alone at the top-are railroads

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And irrigation districts. We did some work for an irr district that was there before the RR. They loved telling the RR, we're cutting your tracks on Thursday, I would hold the trains... and not a damn thing the RR could say.

onpoint said:

I love questions like these on internet forums.
There are official sources to get these answers from.
I know guys with an ONX enabled phone or GPS in their hand have, on occasion, been handed a ticket in the other hand.
As for telling an LEO that "this is what the guys on the internet said", well, lemme' know how it works out.............

Click to expand...

I think what's nice about the internet is that if it is controversial you will either get pointed to the official source or it will be obvious there isn't an accepted answer (e.g. corner crossing). Turns out agency folks give out wrong advice too...

Speaking of selling railroad grades.... there was a railroad that ran parallel to the road near Martinsdale. Some clever landowner bought the grade (or whatever it is called) where it crossed state land, effectively blocking access from the highway. Or at least that's what the DNRC told me. The strip is so narrow you migh tnot even notice it on OnX.

I work for BNSF railway (formerly known as Burlington Northern Sante Fe). The "right of ways" as we call them, are private and trespassing is not allowed. In most places, not all, our property extends 50' out from the nearest track. That's measured from the track center. The tracks have a 4' 8" spread. So as measured from the nearest rail you would add 2' 4" (half of the track spread). As far as passing under the tracks, I am not sure of our official stance on that. I know hundreds of places where there is ATV trails going under our tracks and there is no attempt to stop them, just maybe a sign posted No Trespassing, warning people to keep off the bridge they are passing under. our main concern is that trespassers would be struck by trains. It is also pressured into us to call in and report trespassers as we see them. But realistically, we dont. It is just unreasonable and unenforceable. By the time our police (yes, rail road police - basically about as much power as a US Marshal) are able to respond, the person has moved on. We do however call in people climbing on the rail cars, damaging property, or hanging out on our bridges or climbing our structures.

You can always call the local section house (probably gonna have to do some google-foo to figure out the nearest one) and then call and ask to speak to the Roadmaster. He should be able to give you an idea of the policy/easement rights for that particular area. Make sure you know the road name you are wanting to access from or the approximate milepost you want to cross at.

Now, about RR mile posts, and hang onto your head for this one. They are really different then the highway mile posts. There "should" be one every mile next to the tracks. But some areas have long miles and some short miles and others have the same mile post twice - usually differentiated by a letter after the number, and other areas skip mile posts. The signs should be white and the numbering vertical. Sometimes they are literally hiding in bushes, behind other signs, or mounted on structures. If there is a bridge, it should have a milepost sign near it or painted on it.

Make sure you know where you want to cross and are able to articulate well where that is and how you will be doing it.

Roadmasters are very busy people and it may be difficult to reach them. Depending on the office you call, there may be another person who can answer your questions, so dont get caught up on talking to just the roadmaster.

onpoint said:

Once again, tell that to a Deputy Sheriff or warden.

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Deputy sheriffs and game wardens often don't know the boundaries any better than looking at the closest fence line or taking the closest landowners word for it, and getting written up doesn't mean you'll have to pay it if you were in the right and can prove it.