SD MD NR Draw Question

ImBillT said:

Then start squaring and cubing points....

In the case of the group app, in most if not all states, there have to be enough tags left for the entire group to draw. Sure six guys with six points each get 36 beans in the pot total for their application, but if there are only five tags left when they get drawn then they don’t draw. In units with hundreds of tags they have better odds, but in units with only a few tags, they have severely worse odds than a solo application. Then of course there are the states that average the points. On a group app in one of those states if guys had 4, 5 and 6 points, their application would only get 5pts, and if there were only two tags left when they drew, they wouldn’t get the hunt.

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I agree with the point about only drawing if there are enough tags left. But your are only ineligible for the last 5 tags. Still pays to go in as a group, IMO. With a computerized draw, you have no way of telling if you got drawn first or fifth-to-last.

Warmer, it only pays to go with a group if you all have the same amount of preference points. Otherwise it can screw you over if someone doesn't have many preference points. If guys have 4, 5, 6 and 1 point, then you are drawing with 1 preference point only.

btweedy said:

Warmer, it only pays to go with a group if you all have the same amount of preference points. Otherwise it can screw you over if someone doesn't have many preference points. If guys have 4, 5, 6 and 1 point, then you are drawing with 1 preference point only.

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I re-read my post.
I was unclear when I brought the group application up. Yes, applying with lower points hunters screws you. I meant six guys, each with six points, would get 36 beans. I apply with my kids every year so we all have same points. We all draw or we don't.

warmer said:

I re-read my post.
I was unclear when I brought the group application up. Yes, applying with lower points hunters screws you. I meant six guys, each with six points, would get 36 beans. I apply with my kids every year so we all have same points. We all draw or we don't.

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No, not 36 "beans." Only 6. They don't add all the points together for a group. That wouldn't make any sense, just like I said in my post yesterday.

Washington Hunter said:

No, not 36 "beans." Only 6. They don't add all the points together for a group. That wouldn't make any sense, just like I said in my post yesterday.

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If you, I and four of our buddies all have 6 points, we apply together as one group, if one of us draws, we all draw. Essentially giving all of us 36 beans.

warmer said:

If you, I and four of our buddies all have 6 points, we apply together as one group, if one of us draws, we all draw. Essentially giving all of us 36 beans.

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Lost me!

Washington Hunter said:

Lost me!

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I lack the ability to explain it any differently.

Washington,

Each of the 6 guys will have their individual name thrown into the hat 6 times. 6 guys x 6 points = 36. If one of them draws, they all draw.

warmer said:

I agree with the point about only drawing if there are enough tags left. But your are only ineligible for the last 5 tags. Still pays to go in as a group, IMO. With a computerized draw, you have no way of telling if you got drawn first or fifth-to-last.

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Right. What I’m saying is that if you apply for a hunt with 100 tags, then your odds are good on a group app, but if you’re applying for a hunt with only six tags, and you’re a five man group, you literally have to draw first. Your odds just got horrible. It depends on the hunt. Most of my apps are out of state, so there are very few hunts in which a group application doesn’t completely destroy your odds.

ImBillT said:

Right. What I’m saying is that if you apply for a hunt with 100 tags, then your odds are good on a group app, but if you’re applying for a hunt with only six tags, and you’re a five man group, you literally have to draw first. Your odds just got horrible. It depends on the hunt. Most of my apps are out of state, so there are very few hunts in which a group application doesn’t completely destroy your odds.

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As a resident the smallest pool we apply for is east river deer and our unit has 100 tags. I like my odds with 5 other guys. Elk is different, 2 person group is max. Smallest pool we apply for is 8 tags. Still like my odds.

In a true PREFERENCE point drawing system where all applicants apply alone (no parties averaging points, etc.) there should NEVER be an instance where a person with fewer points draws before a person with more points.

However, all states are different, that is, they all have drawing systems with unique rules and it takes some studying to understand their particular system . What you guys have described in this thread does not appear to be a preference point system, but rater a modified BONUS point system - where points are squared or cubed. Bonus point systems increase an applicants chances of drawing where a true preference point system can guarantee an applicant a license.

For instance, Wyoming has a true preference point system and a certain percent of the limited quota licenses in a hunt area are allocated to the preference point draw. The remaining licenses are allocated to a random draw.

Wyoming averages the number of preference points of the members of a party application out to four decimal points. And, for those types of licenses where party applications (up to six applicants to a party) are allowed, the license quota for a hunt area can be exceeded by five. The reason being is if a party is drawn all members of the party get a license. So if only one license is left in the quota and a party of six is drawn, they all are issued a license and the license quota for that hunt area is exceeded by five. For Wyoming parties and single applicants are entered in the draw system as a random number. If that random number is drawn the hunter or hunters (in a party) assigned to that random number are issued a license. You have the same drawing odds if you apply as a lone applicant or as a party (no matter the number of hunters in that party).

Gotta do your homework!

ClearCreek