The Hedgehog
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Wolves are pretty neat animals. But if you like to hunt elk, odds are high, you won't really want more wolves and all the BS that goes with them.
Can we learn to live with wolves again?
- Thread starter Jasher
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BuzzH
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That reply is going to leave a mark...
That's how a lot of Montanans, Wyomingites & Idahoans feel about tourists who go to Yellowstone.
BrentD
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That's how a lot of Montanans, Wyomingites & Idahoans feel about tourists who go to Yellowstone.
But, of course, they are in love with those tourista dollars.
I don't understand the hate for wolves that bears and lions seem to be immune to.
The Hedgehog
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Those Montanans all love the tourist dollars?
It's not a mystery to me that it's a mystery to you why people might hate wolves more than bears and cats.
I don't think that lions are immune when you go to a season setting meeting in districts where deer are a hot commodity. Bears are always in trouble too, between grizzlies and blackies.
But the wolf issue is rooted in far more than biology. For some it's a severe impact on their livlihood, others it's fear of the unkown, others still see how things were, and how they've changed while most who dislike the critters tend to look at it from the aspect of being forced into something they didn't want in the first place - reintroduction.
We've not extirpated lions and bears, so people are accustomed to them. We did get rid of wolves, and that myth of why remains strong. Just as the real impacts of reintroduction remain strong. I don't fault people for disliking the critter, but the tools exist to fix any issues they cause and we have extremely liberal seasons on them designed to not only keep populations in check, but to ease to collective concerns of the humans involved as well.
The Hedgehog
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Although you're correct, some places, for a variety or reasons, still don't receive the benefits of the tools that are in place. I've seen the elk/wolf ebbs and flows before, and I'm hoping this last 2 years is just another ebb. But, I doubt it.
PrairieHunter
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Interesting info on the wolf numbers in MN. Really mind boggling to think that you guys can't hunt them.
Overall right now in this country predator numbers are booming. Black bears are being tolerated across most of the country even though they are chewing on people all the way from the Canada border to Florida and even going in hotels down in Colorado. Wolves numbers are possibly getting close to 10k in the coming years with populations from the rockies, great lakes, down to Mexico with wolves turning up in places like South Dakota, Iowa, and Kansas. Lions are out of control in parts of the country where seasons have been cancelled for political reasons in spite of animals literally stalking peoples kids in their back yard in places like NW Nebraska, not to mention all the crazy videos of lion interactions across the country. Then you have griz which were chewing on large numbers of people in the rockies including around 40 bears being killed in Wyoming alone where bears were showing up at DQ, kids corn mazes, golf courses, and in new places where they have not been in decades. And all the while coyotes numbers are booming across the country.
It's really quite mind boggling how we are tolerating predator numbers. Much different than how our grandparents handled things.
I think it's great to have a few bears and wolves for tourist at YNP but I do not want to see wolves expand across Wyoming or into areas like the black hills where they are already showing up. I really doubt the people of South Dakota are going to be tolerant as everyone from ranchers, farmers, and hunters will be against them. But Colorado could get interesting if given the opportunity.
Overall right now in this country predator numbers are booming. Black bears are being tolerated across most of the country even though they are chewing on people all the way from the Canada border to Florida and even going in hotels down in Colorado. Wolves numbers are possibly getting close to 10k in the coming years with populations from the rockies, great lakes, down to Mexico with wolves turning up in places like South Dakota, Iowa, and Kansas. Lions are out of control in parts of the country where seasons have been cancelled for political reasons in spite of animals literally stalking peoples kids in their back yard in places like NW Nebraska, not to mention all the crazy videos of lion interactions across the country. Then you have griz which were chewing on large numbers of people in the rockies including around 40 bears being killed in Wyoming alone where bears were showing up at DQ, kids corn mazes, golf courses, and in new places where they have not been in decades. And all the while coyotes numbers are booming across the country.
It's really quite mind boggling how we are tolerating predator numbers. Much different than how our grandparents handled things.
I think it's great to have a few bears and wolves for tourist at YNP but I do not want to see wolves expand across Wyoming or into areas like the black hills where they are already showing up. I really doubt the people of South Dakota are going to be tolerant as everyone from ranchers, farmers, and hunters will be against them. But Colorado could get interesting if given the opportunity.
BrentD
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IOWA? Where? We might have the occasional visitor, but we don't have wolves. I keep hoping. We have an overabundance of groceries.
What does "out of control" mean to you? What is "in control"?
"Out of control" is the phrase that comes up whenever someone sees 1 wolf, or can't fill a half dozen doe tags in a couple of hours.
The only thing that relates to "control" is what abundances are relative to what the speaker's idea of optimal numbers should be (usually ZERO).
Meanwhile, we all dream of hunting like Lewis and Clark saw it, when wolves and bears and lions were "out of control" (by definition).
We have huge ungulate populations all over the country. In many cases, much larger numbers that L & C ever saw. And yet, people want even more. In the middle of wolf-central Wyoming and Montana, elk hunting is excellent right now. Minnesota and Wisconsin have excellent deer herds, much bigger than they had 50 yrs ago when wolf populations were somewhere between zilch and next to nothing.
Game and Fish Departments and USFWS are not farms of targets for us, but managers of entire ecosystems.
Of all the things that threaten hunting and wildlife in general, wolves have to be just about the very smallest threat of all. Nevertheless, they occupy 10x more of the discussion than all the other threats combined.
What does "out of control" mean to you? What is "in control"?
"Out of control" is the phrase that comes up whenever someone sees 1 wolf, or can't fill a half dozen doe tags in a couple of hours.
The only thing that relates to "control" is what abundances are relative to what the speaker's idea of optimal numbers should be (usually ZERO).
Meanwhile, we all dream of hunting like Lewis and Clark saw it, when wolves and bears and lions were "out of control" (by definition).
We have huge ungulate populations all over the country. In many cases, much larger numbers that L & C ever saw. And yet, people want even more. In the middle of wolf-central Wyoming and Montana, elk hunting is excellent right now. Minnesota and Wisconsin have excellent deer herds, much bigger than they had 50 yrs ago when wolf populations were somewhere between zilch and next to nothing.
Game and Fish Departments and USFWS are not farms of targets for us, but managers of entire ecosystems.
Of all the things that threaten hunting and wildlife in general, wolves have to be just about the very smallest threat of all. Nevertheless, they occupy 10x more of the discussion than all the other threats combined.
The Hedgehog
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You are a delusional clueless idiot.
BrentD
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Sorry you think so, Greenhorn. Perhaps you can tell me exactly what YOU think that makes you so much better informed.
You certainly have no problem finding an abundance of huge bucks and bulls every year. Are you really feeling so challenged by wolves?
You are quick to insult, but you don't offer much else than an insult.
You certainly have no problem finding an abundance of huge bucks and bulls every year. Are you really feeling so challenged by wolves?
You are quick to insult, but you don't offer much else than an insult.
BrentD
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Sure walker, whatever you say. You have got all the answers. I know. Same ol' same ol'. Keep singing the tune.
PrairieHunter
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The Hedgehog
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There’s 6 days left of the MT season & I’m busy. I’ll say it again and come back in a week to elaborate - you’re a clueless & ignorant douche.
Stop logging into a hunting web forum and spewing your thoughts on things you’ve only read about from Iowa. Do you think everybody who doesn’t embrace your from afar wolf/elk harmony ideas is in the Toby bridges fan club?
Brent, name a specific place in Wyoming or Montana where wolves are abundant that you think elk hunting is in your words ‘excellent’.
There are exactly zero ‘excellent’ elk areas anywhere there are ample, long established wolf numbers. Zero. Sure you can get an elk, but it’s a far cry from ‘excellent’ It is, however, improving from being horrible.
There are exactly zero ‘excellent’ elk areas anywhere there are ample, long established wolf numbers. Zero. Sure you can get an elk, but it’s a far cry from ‘excellent’ It is, however, improving from being horrible.
BrentD
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many a time
antlerradar
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Maybe a lifetime of hunting the backcounty of the mountains to the north of Yellowstone.
I'm not sure where the OP comes up with the idea that we use to know how to live with wolves. My great grandfather could remember when there was the original population of wolves in Eastern MT. Back then the goal was extermination by any means possible.
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