Lower-end scopes vs higher-end?

Good rifle scopes are expensive because they are worth it. I finally saved up enough money and bought a 2K nightforce. I spent 5 days in Idaho and 4 days here in CO hunting with it. I'm not kind to optics on these trips. I took it out to the range this past weekend, as I am so accustomed to having to re zero after a trip. To my surprise my POI had not shifted.

The amount of tears you shed when you fall and the scope hits the rocks.

SnowyMountaineer said:

Ability to hold zero and tracking are #1. Optical excellence is useless to me without those, whether it's $300 or $2,000. Knowing whether your more expensive scope bought you good internals, good glass, or both is a matter of research and/or many rounds down range with different scopes.

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THIS! Sighting in a scope that tracks as advertised and consistently is so very nice. I've yet to see any relatively modern scopes have a view that was unserviceable...

1_pointer said:

....I've yet to see any relatively modern scopes have a view that was unserviceable...

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This is a common theme, most $300+ scopes made in the last 5-10 years have good optics for legal shooting light unless you are shooting very long range right up to the edge of shooting light. That is what the $1000+ scopes buy you from an optical standpoint.

As mentioned holding zero and tracking (if you plan to dial for elevation/windage) then come up in priority since optical quality is sufficient.

Some brands are fairly well known for the ability to both hold POI and track consistency (Nightforce, SWFA, etc) while others are not. High dollar glass does not equal the ability to hold zero and track consistently, be very aware of that.

Alas, i have not had the funds to buy a higher end scope, so i couldn't say an opinion.

For brightness and clarity cheap and expensive scopes are getting closer and closer these days. It’s going to be more prominent on a variable and on a high powered scope than on a fixed power scope. For tracking and handling recoil pretty much all the euro manufactures are excellent, but they’re all pricey. On the cheaper side a Weaver with Micro-Trac, or a Sightron with Exac-Trac will track was well as or better than anything else out there. The both sell models without those features. If you’re looking for a $200 scope that is as close to the $1000 scopes as you can get, the Weaver classic K 6X is under $200, has pretty good glass, but is not micro-trac. Sightron no longer carries a fixed power in that price range that I’m aware of. For a few more dollars a Leupold FX-II is EXCELLENT. A few more dollars than that but still under $500 would be the FX-III. If you buy Leupold or anything made in Japan in a fixed power, you will not be too far behind a $1000 scope in terms of brightness, clarity, or recoil handling, and tracking is more than fine for hunting. The differences will be a lack of features such as zero stop, target knobs, power variability, specialty turrets, fewer reticle choices and tracking.

I said that tracking would be suitable for hunting, and it will be. Those scopes will hold zero and they will move when you tell them to. The issue will be where and how they move. The adjustments come from moving a tube inside your scope tube. Cheaper scopes simply have a screw on the elevation and windage knobs, and a single leaf spring opposing those screws at a 45 degree angle. When you move the elevation knob and the erector tube moves away from center it will also move right because the tube is round and the spring is pushing against both the windage and elevation screws. When you move it up or down toward center, it will also move left. The same happens on windage adjustments. When you move left or right away from can’t er you will move up as well, but moving toward center will move it down. This is why you can seem to be perfect on elevation and two inches left, and then you dial right and now you’re high or low. The farther your adjustments are from the center of their range, the more pronounced this effect is. It can make getting a good zero frustrating if you don’t know what you’re dealing with. It also means that you should zero your rifle and then leave it alone. Don’t dial up or down in the field, just hold off. Exac-Trac/Micro-Trac is one of the systems that corrects this issue and makes it so that when you dial up or down, you only go up or down. Other companies have their own solutions for this problem.

RobG said:

I got a new Vortex scope for $200. Every time I went to the range the groups were in different spots. I'm sure I can send it back, but I spent $100 in ammo and one gut shot deer before I finally figured out it was a scope issue.

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That sucks.

Everyone always toots the "warranty" horn when it comes to Vortex, but I don't get it - the warranty just fixes the optic. It doesn't compensate you for lost PTO, the money spent on your tags, gas money, and other aspects of the hunt that it ruined. Great, it has a good warranty. I'll take a more reliable optic with less warranty any day. Besides, most manufacturers nowadays have comparable warranties.

As far as the jump from low end to high end, like many have said the glass/clarity is better. The zoom is more usable. More durable innards, more reliable dialing(in some cases). Like someone else also mentioned, theres usually diminishing returns once you reach a certain amount.

I have a Leupold VXI 3-9x40 that I paid $125 new. It is clearer than my new $500 Vortex 4-24x50. Price isn't the only factor for scopes. You have to look at ALL of the features for the price. Some folks like illuminated and fancy reticles and are willing to pay more for it. You can get good deals on duplex reticle high end scopes all the time as a result of this strange phenomenon. I bought a duplex VX6 from Cabelas on clearance for $800 last year. Hands down the best scope I own, and not the most expensive. So, you can get great optics for the price if you're willing to go lower in magnification or keep a simple reticle. A lot of times, you're paying for hype. Look for lightly used or discontinued optics and you can get a great deal.

jeffraines said:

That sucks.

Everyone always toots the "warranty" horn when it comes to Vortex, but I don't get it - the warranty just fixes the optic. It doesn't compensate you for lost PTO, the money spent on your tags, gas money, and other aspects of the hunt that it ruined. Great, it has a good warranty. I'll take a more reliable optic with less warranty any day. Besides, most manufacturers nowadays have comparable warranties.

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Just an anecdote, not the universal "truth", but we had six rifles between 3 guys at our last trip and 5 worked fine (mix of well used Nikon and Leupold) and the 6th was all over the place when we tried to zero it for altitude -- it was a new Vortex. When we got back Vortex did take it and agree it was broken, but the warranty on a $450 scope 3 months later isn't much solace if it screws up a once a year $4000 hunting trip (thankfully in our case we had plenty of back up options).

Truth, from my experience. I bought a 4X32 Redfield 45 years ago, still in service. A Simmons 3X9X40, 40 years ago, still in service. A Bushnell 3X9X45 35 year ago, still in service. Not one broke the $100 mark.

I was blessed to win a Leupold 3X9X40 CDS from OYOA, through a promotion event. I love it and have bought another Leupold since.

But I've never NOT been able to make a shot I wanted to from any of the scopes I have.

Gunner46 said:

Truth, from my experience. I bought a 4X32 Redfield 45 years ago, still in service. A Simmons 3X9X40, 40 years ago, still in service. A Bushnell 3X9X45 35 year ago, still in service. Not one broke the $100 mark.

I was blessed to win a Leupold 3X9X40 CDS from OYOA, through a promotion event. I love it and have bought another Leupold since.

But I've never NOT been able to make a shot I wanted to from any of the scopes I have.

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That's good to hear. In about 1971 I bought a new 2 3/4x Redfield and a 1-4x Redfield. Both still working fine today!

Vortex makes a great optic for the money. But I have heard of problems like that.

I've had the same Leupold VX-I (the OLD VX-I, I think the rifleman or american something or another now) since I put it on my deer rifle when I was 12. That thing has taken a beating and has never lost its zero, much less broken. Additionally, the glass is pretty damn good, and the scope is 20 years old. I would imagine that the newer models might have better glass?

I'm of the opinion that unless you're shooting a long distance there's really no point in amazing scope glass. You should save your money and put it towards good knockers or a spotter.

However, take my advice with a grain of salt as I don't shoot at animals over 300 yards away and don't need to dial for that distance. So if you plan on making a bunch of scope zero changes it may be worth a more expensive dial system?

A baseline expectation for a scope to hold zero seems reasonable to me. Every optic will have some failure rate under hard use, which again is why I want to know if my extra dollars spent are buying better guts or glass. Formid is not the most popular user around here, but there are dudes like that who keep track of this stuff for a job.

SnowyMountaineer said:

A baseline expectation for a scope to hold zero seems reasonable to me. Every optic will have some failure rate under hard use, which again is why I want to know if my extra dollars spent are buying better guts or glass. Formid is not the most popular user around here, but there are dudes like that who keep track of this stuff for a job.

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But, how many "normal" hunters will even notice the difference between a scope that supposedly tracks, and one that supposedly doesn't? Especially since I notice the majority of hunters hardly ever take a shot beyond 500 yards. mtmuley

mtmuley said:

But, how many "normal" hunters will even notice the difference between a scope that supposedly tracks, and one that supposedly doesn't? Especially since I notice the majority of hunters hardly ever take a shot beyond 500 yards. mtmuley

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Yep, and the scopes I’ve seen that don’t track accurately only become noticeable after 10-15 mils.

Warranties are nothing more than in-built insurance policies when you purchase your scope, you are paying for them even if your scope lasts a lifetime.

Regarding the difference between high and low end scopes, most has been covered, but where I hunt differs from where you hunt, I can hunt deer 1 hour before sunrise and 1 hour after sunset, that is when good light transmission means going home with a deer or not even seeing it in the x-hairs, for the record, mine are both Schmidt and Benders, 6x42 (had it for nearly 25 years!) and 8x56 and I would never change them.

Cheers

Richard

OhHeyThereBen said:

You should save your money and put it towards good knockers . . .

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Good suggestion - put the funds toward silicon implants for the little mrs.

mtmuley said:

But, how many "normal" hunters will even notice the difference between a scope that supposedly tracks, and one that supposedly doesn't? Especially since I notice the majority of hunters hardly ever take a shot beyond 500 yards. mtmuley

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I said HOLD ZERO and track. A couple posters in this thread have noted that a failure to do so has negatively affected their hunt. I'll grant you that many hunters dont shoot beyond 500y, but its no secret being confident in your gear at distance makes the 300 yard shot a more comfortable stroke.

I have a few mid range scopes (Leupold) and a few lower end like the entry level Vortex. I've had very few issues with any of these scopes. They are on everything from a 243 to a 375, and a handful in between.

I had a Bushnell that was 30+ years old that eventually lost part of the reticle. Aside from that, the only scope issues I've ever had were from Cabelas's scopes. I've had two of them about 20 years apart. Both of them were mounted on my 300 win mag, and both lasted less than 5 shots. The first one the glass cracked, and the second one something inside broke and there were bits of white plastic floating around in the glass. Never again.

I have two Vortex Daimondbacks. One on a 30-06, the other on a 270. While considering the price, I have nothing but good things to say about them.

mtmuley said:

But, how many "normal" hunters will even notice the difference between a scope that supposedly tracks, and one that supposedly doesn't? Especially since I notice the majority of hunters hardly ever take a shot beyond 500 yards. mtmuley

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I would guess the majority of hunter's seldom take a shot past 200 yds!