AvidIndoorsman
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Colorado had point restrictions for mule deer for a long time ^ this was the effect and they dropped the rule.
Public Lands Ranch: SE Montana with no photos!
- Thread starter Mtnhunter1
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Colorado had point restrictions for mule deer for a long time ^ this was the effect and they dropped the rule.
antlerradar
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Killergaurd;2765080 Antlerradar cool you the man[/QUOTE said:
Killergaurd
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Antler radar I was just being an ass. Hey something has to change. Season structure, not hunting in the rut. Antler restriction. All LE. Only way to change it is for us, the hunters to make it happen
This past weekend I decided to try out a new area that has historically held some big mature deer. I knew I would run into plenty of hunters but since its such a big chunk of public ground I was sure I could do some hiking and get away from the competition. There were more hunters than I could have imagined. It is big country and at times I would be on a glassing knob and could count up to a dozen other vehicles cruising the hills around me. The number of hunters might not have been such a problem but add the fact that they were driving along the tops of every draw and you felt like the deer didn't stand a chance. It almost makes you feel guilty about hunting deer when you see them getting that much pressure.
Every year public land pressure seems to increase. Every year hunters are outfitted with better gear, better optics, rangefinders, rifles that can shoot farther, etc.....yet Montana's system stays the same. You can't continue to improve the efficiency of hunters without improving the resource, its just not sustainable.
I agree that the only way to change it is for hunters to make it happen. This year some hunters in the Libby area got fed up and came up with an initiative to make one of the local deer units a limited permit area. This was against the wishes of FWP, but it somehow passed. I'm not saying making the whole state limited quota is the answer (I'd personally just like to see a shorter season), but it is encouraging that changes can happen if enough hunters decide to do something about it.
Every year public land pressure seems to increase. Every year hunters are outfitted with better gear, better optics, rangefinders, rifles that can shoot farther, etc.....yet Montana's system stays the same. You can't continue to improve the efficiency of hunters without improving the resource, its just not sustainable.
I agree that the only way to change it is for hunters to make it happen. This year some hunters in the Libby area got fed up and came up with an initiative to make one of the local deer units a limited permit area. This was against the wishes of FWP, but it somehow passed. I'm not saying making the whole state limited quota is the answer (I'd personally just like to see a shorter season), but it is encouraging that changes can happen if enough hunters decide to do something about it.
BuzzH
Well-known member
There are so many things that could be done to improve the situation, even without going LQ or shortening the seasons.
Until the FWP quits citing a 40 year old "study" that they did, showing that Montana hunters wanted opportunity over everything, and anything else, change will be slow to happen.
My family and I talked a lot about this during our recent deer hunt in Montana...some of the things that would help are blaringly obvious.
antlerradar
Well-known member
Quit making management decisions influenced by the management philosophy of the law of diminishing returns. The law of diminishing returns only works if there is good access to most of the game populations. There hasn't been that kind of access in close to forty years. Without good access hunters can not self regulate where they hunt and the accessible public land gets pounded year after year.
Fewer regulations and more tags doesn't necessarily result in more opportunity. Back in the early 90's aside form a few whitetail doe tags and some sight specific mule deer doe tags the only tag available was an A tag. Buck hunting was pretty good opportunity on the public back then and there was a lot less public available. Now we have in Region 7 in addition to your A tag ,unlimited whitetail doe tags(one per person), 2000 additional whitetail doe tags valid in all of Region 7 . eleven thousand mule deer doe tags that can be used anywhere in the region, 225 ether sex elk permits good in 702,704 and 705, 3700 archery elk permits of witch many are used in Region 7, unlimited elk A tags that are good for a Cow or spike off of the Custer, 500 elk b tags good in any place in Region 7 except the Custer and 600 elk b tags valid in 702,704 and 705. It all adds up to a lot more hunting pressure. Is it any wonder that mule deer on public are taking it on the chin and those that are left are taking up refuge on private land. You just can not continue to stuff more and more hunters on to the Custer and surrounding Public land expect it not to change for the worst.
Fewer regulations and more tags doesn't necessarily result in more opportunity. Back in the early 90's aside form a few whitetail doe tags and some sight specific mule deer doe tags the only tag available was an A tag. Buck hunting was pretty good opportunity on the public back then and there was a lot less public available. Now we have in Region 7 in addition to your A tag ,unlimited whitetail doe tags(one per person), 2000 additional whitetail doe tags valid in all of Region 7 . eleven thousand mule deer doe tags that can be used anywhere in the region, 225 ether sex elk permits good in 702,704 and 705, 3700 archery elk permits of witch many are used in Region 7, unlimited elk A tags that are good for a Cow or spike off of the Custer, 500 elk b tags good in any place in Region 7 except the Custer and 600 elk b tags valid in 702,704 and 705. It all adds up to a lot more hunting pressure. Is it any wonder that mule deer on public are taking it on the chin and those that are left are taking up refuge on private land. You just can not continue to stuff more and more hunters on to the Custer and surrounding Public land expect it not to change for the worst.
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Mtnhunter1
Well-known member
My SE Montana Public Land reflections for 2018.
Well, my wife and I just returned from yet another SE Montana public lands adventure. As stated earlier in this post, this is my wife’s favorite part of Montana to hunt. With that said, it did take some time talking her into taking another trip east due to the hunting pressure in our favorite areas. Mostly, I just wanted to spend time in the field with my wife! I also wanted to do a personal audit of the number of hunters, hunting pressure and critter numbers seen on the public.
From my prospective, here are my observations.
#1: Hunter numbers, both resident and non-resident, had definitely increased. We came across hunters from all over this great country but only took time to talk to a few. There were multiple non-residents license plates from Minnesota, Wisconsin and Washington and single rigs from as far away as Maryland and Alaska. The majority of resident hunter rigs had 4, 6 and 7 county plates.
#2: Hunting pressure, on the public was intense! Each day, we came across other hunters while out in the field. We hunted as far from the roads as you can possibly get on public ground in SE Montana and could not get away from other hunting parties. One day we had hiked to the back end of a long public piece of ground. We did this 3 ½ mile hike in the dark via headlamps and were waiting for day light on top of one of our favorite glassing knobs. We had not been there for more than 20 minutes when we heard voices directly below us. Yup, headlamp lights heading straight up to our position on the knob. The two Minnesota hunters nearly jumped out of their skins when I said, “HOWDY”, as they closed to within 25yds. They turned out to be very nice young guys who had packed in two days earlier. They had tagged a nice fat 3 ½ year old 3x4 muley buck and two muley does in their first two days and were really enjoying their Montana hunting trip. I should note that we first hunted this piece of ground about fifteen years ago. In that time we have only seen hunters in that area twice. One hunter from Bozeman in 2015 and two hunters from afar last year in 2017, yup, that’s all! As my wife and I hunted our way back to the truck we viewed another hunting party with three hunters on the ridge to the south and another lone hunter closer to the main road. During our trip back to the truck that day we hit all our usual glassing spots. We hit all our favorite critter hide-e-holes. We viewed a total of (5) mule deer before reaching the rig that day. SAD, 7-mile round trip hike on this piece of public land and we saw more hunters than deer! Driving out that evening my wife stopped counting at 300+ deer out in the private outfitted lands that parallel that piece of public.
#3: Number of deer seen on the public was WAY down from a few weeks ago! With that said, and with the rut ramping up, most doe groups had at least one buck not far away. 1 ½ to 3 ½ year old bucks made up 99.9% of the bucks viewed out on the public grounds. These bucks also were 99.9% of the bucks we saw that were taken by hunters, along with at least a hundred does. These young bucks and does were getting hammered! We did see a total of four, “older aged mature bucks”, with only one of those being located on public ground. That one mature public ground buck? Well, my wife and I spent two hours maneuvering ourselves into her rifle range of that buck. He was bedded with his does directly across a deep drainage from us. We had run out of cover and could only see the buck’s head so we were in our usual waiting game. 1 ½ hours later two does where up feeding and another small forked horn had made his way down to the group. Then a hunter appeared on the skyline of the ridge above the deer. We watched as this hunter spotted the deer below him. My wife had a great rest over her pack and she had her cross-hairs at the top of the brush that was hiding the buck’s bedded body. I was announcing to her the other hunter’s play-by-play and telling her to hammer the buck once he started to stand. Watching the other hunter go from casually glassing the deer below him to almost panic mode once he spotted the bedded buck was quite a sight! The other hunter dropped to his belly so fast that I lost sight of him for a second. He then tried to use his bipod but could not get the angle due to the steep slope. He then crawled forward to shoot prone off of a small rock. Nope, that didn’t work either! He then struggled to remove his pack and that got the two does and forky to stare directly in his direction. Finally he maneuvered his pack into a rifle rest and shot the buck in his bed. The buck never got up so it must have been a good shot! My wife started cussing, removed the cartridge for her chamber, shouldered her pack and took off for our rig. Yes, she left me sitting there alone! I made my way over to the hunter and his buck. The hunter had been hunting the next ridge to the north and had seen the little buck top the ridge. He didn’t admit this, but after talking with him, I think that he would have shot the forky if the bigger buck hadn’t been there. So goes hunting on our PUBLIC LANDS RANCH! That hunter was really excited, so much so, he was still shacking as we talked. While I did take some photos for him with both his camera and his phone, he did not want any additional help! It was the fourth day of his very first western hunt and he wanted to experience everything by himself!
I did a whole lot of thinking as I hiked the few miles solo back to the rig. That buck’s time was over! That buck had just plain run out of luck and hiding places! I’m guessing that the public will have less and less critters running around during the general season in the years to come. UNLESS our FWP can change their way of thinking and allocation of tags in the 700’s, this will be my wife and I’s last trip to SE Montana’s Public Lands Ranch!
Last word, Jim, Jason or Justin, I’m hell on remembering names, “NICE BUCK”!
Well, my wife and I just returned from yet another SE Montana public lands adventure. As stated earlier in this post, this is my wife’s favorite part of Montana to hunt. With that said, it did take some time talking her into taking another trip east due to the hunting pressure in our favorite areas. Mostly, I just wanted to spend time in the field with my wife! I also wanted to do a personal audit of the number of hunters, hunting pressure and critter numbers seen on the public.
From my prospective, here are my observations.
#1: Hunter numbers, both resident and non-resident, had definitely increased. We came across hunters from all over this great country but only took time to talk to a few. There were multiple non-residents license plates from Minnesota, Wisconsin and Washington and single rigs from as far away as Maryland and Alaska. The majority of resident hunter rigs had 4, 6 and 7 county plates.
#2: Hunting pressure, on the public was intense! Each day, we came across other hunters while out in the field. We hunted as far from the roads as you can possibly get on public ground in SE Montana and could not get away from other hunting parties. One day we had hiked to the back end of a long public piece of ground. We did this 3 ½ mile hike in the dark via headlamps and were waiting for day light on top of one of our favorite glassing knobs. We had not been there for more than 20 minutes when we heard voices directly below us. Yup, headlamp lights heading straight up to our position on the knob. The two Minnesota hunters nearly jumped out of their skins when I said, “HOWDY”, as they closed to within 25yds. They turned out to be very nice young guys who had packed in two days earlier. They had tagged a nice fat 3 ½ year old 3x4 muley buck and two muley does in their first two days and were really enjoying their Montana hunting trip. I should note that we first hunted this piece of ground about fifteen years ago. In that time we have only seen hunters in that area twice. One hunter from Bozeman in 2015 and two hunters from afar last year in 2017, yup, that’s all! As my wife and I hunted our way back to the truck we viewed another hunting party with three hunters on the ridge to the south and another lone hunter closer to the main road. During our trip back to the truck that day we hit all our usual glassing spots. We hit all our favorite critter hide-e-holes. We viewed a total of (5) mule deer before reaching the rig that day. SAD, 7-mile round trip hike on this piece of public land and we saw more hunters than deer! Driving out that evening my wife stopped counting at 300+ deer out in the private outfitted lands that parallel that piece of public.
#3: Number of deer seen on the public was WAY down from a few weeks ago! With that said, and with the rut ramping up, most doe groups had at least one buck not far away. 1 ½ to 3 ½ year old bucks made up 99.9% of the bucks viewed out on the public grounds. These bucks also were 99.9% of the bucks we saw that were taken by hunters, along with at least a hundred does. These young bucks and does were getting hammered! We did see a total of four, “older aged mature bucks”, with only one of those being located on public ground. That one mature public ground buck? Well, my wife and I spent two hours maneuvering ourselves into her rifle range of that buck. He was bedded with his does directly across a deep drainage from us. We had run out of cover and could only see the buck’s head so we were in our usual waiting game. 1 ½ hours later two does where up feeding and another small forked horn had made his way down to the group. Then a hunter appeared on the skyline of the ridge above the deer. We watched as this hunter spotted the deer below him. My wife had a great rest over her pack and she had her cross-hairs at the top of the brush that was hiding the buck’s bedded body. I was announcing to her the other hunter’s play-by-play and telling her to hammer the buck once he started to stand. Watching the other hunter go from casually glassing the deer below him to almost panic mode once he spotted the bedded buck was quite a sight! The other hunter dropped to his belly so fast that I lost sight of him for a second. He then tried to use his bipod but could not get the angle due to the steep slope. He then crawled forward to shoot prone off of a small rock. Nope, that didn’t work either! He then struggled to remove his pack and that got the two does and forky to stare directly in his direction. Finally he maneuvered his pack into a rifle rest and shot the buck in his bed. The buck never got up so it must have been a good shot! My wife started cussing, removed the cartridge for her chamber, shouldered her pack and took off for our rig. Yes, she left me sitting there alone! I made my way over to the hunter and his buck. The hunter had been hunting the next ridge to the north and had seen the little buck top the ridge. He didn’t admit this, but after talking with him, I think that he would have shot the forky if the bigger buck hadn’t been there. So goes hunting on our PUBLIC LANDS RANCH! That hunter was really excited, so much so, he was still shacking as we talked. While I did take some photos for him with both his camera and his phone, he did not want any additional help! It was the fourth day of his very first western hunt and he wanted to experience everything by himself!
I did a whole lot of thinking as I hiked the few miles solo back to the rig. That buck’s time was over! That buck had just plain run out of luck and hiding places! I’m guessing that the public will have less and less critters running around during the general season in the years to come. UNLESS our FWP can change their way of thinking and allocation of tags in the 700’s, this will be my wife and I’s last trip to SE Montana’s Public Lands Ranch!
Last word, Jim, Jason or Justin, I’m hell on remembering names, “NICE BUCK”!
The Hedgehog
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You exaggerate a lot.
Mtnhunter1
Well-known member
Greenhorn,
Don't we all?
Think'n that I'll spend the remainder of the season in the real mountains!
Betting that I don't see another hunter while out and about there...
Don't we all?
Think'n that I'll spend the remainder of the season in the real mountains!
Betting that I don't see another hunter while out and about there...
Bambistew
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AvidIndoorsman
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^ was thinking the other day how it would be nice if we had Grizzlies in CO so I didn’t have to worry about running into as many people in my favorite spots
Dinkshooter
Well-known member
So how many years to draw that tag?
Mtnhunter1
Well-known member
Hmmm? Now that would be NICE! That's a beautiful buck Bambistew!
Mtnhunter1
Well-known member
Think'n that I'll spend the remainder of the season in the real mountains! Quote
Grizzly bears are our friend. Quote by MTTW
Yes they are! A big G-bear track in the snow turns more than a few hunters back to their rigs.
Grizzly bears are our friend. Quote by MTTW
Yes they are! A big G-bear track in the snow turns more than a few hunters back to their rigs.
antlerradar
Well-known member
Bambi, A few more bucks like that and there may be hope for South Eastern MT.
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Bambistew
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He has 13 points.
The Hedgehog
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Bambi - I suggest contracting with the local tourism department to help the local economy as well as those in need of a big buck mule deer and a quality hunting experience.
Carnage2011
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Greenhorn,
Are the only LE permits in MT worth a damn in the Bitterroot? Or do you believe there are others with more potential?
The Hedgehog
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I'm unaware of any very good quality "public" land deer hunting in MT, permit or not. Doesn't mean there aren't any - I just don't know about any.
