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Vote Public Lands

This guy that guy, this woman that woman, Trump this Trump that. They're all a bunch of f#$%* waiting to get paid on the big scale WTF do any of these people do that not one of us "outdoorsman" can't do ourselves. Yet every 2 and 4 years here we are arguing about the same shit, and it grows every time. Not sure who i'm voting for and i'm not sharing. I'm not seeing much of a change either way besides towards the negative way. Anymore it's what the bullshit media makes it and that is what it is. I want someone to step up make some changes and keep things going forward not regressing. Thinking about my kids in the future, and their kids. Not some douche bag thinking about themselves getting a pay raise every 2 years with full benefits we're paying for. Self beliefs or not on who you vote for. The control panel of this country sucks big time!
 
EYJONAS! said:
This guy that guy, this woman that woman, Trump this Trump that. They're all a bunch of f#$%* waiting to get paid on the big scale WTF do any of these people do that not one of us "outdoorsman" can't do ourselves. Yet every 2 and 4 years here we are arguing about the same shit, and it grows every time. Not sure who i'm voting for and i'm not sharing. I'm not seeing much of a change either way besides towards the negative way. Anymore it's what the bullshit media makes it and that is what it is. I want someone to step up make some changes and keep things going forward not regressing. Thinking about my kids in the future, and their kids. Not some douche bag thinking about themselves getting a pay raise every 2 years with full benefits we're paying for. Self beliefs or not on who you vote for. The control panel of this country sucks big time!
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My experience, the below helps the above - a lot....:D
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EYJONAS! said:
This guy that guy, this woman that woman, Trump this Trump that. They're all a bunch of f#$%* waiting to get paid on the big scale WTF do any of these people do that not one of us "outdoorsman" can't do ourselves. Yet every 2 and 4 years here we are arguing about the same shit, and it grows every time. Not sure who i'm voting for and i'm not sharing. I'm not seeing much of a change either way besides towards the negative way. Anymore it's what the bullshit media makes it and that is what it is. I want someone to step up make some changes and keep things going forward not regressing. Thinking about my kids in the future, and their kids. Not some douche bag thinking about themselves getting a pay raise every 2 years with full benefits we're paying for. Self beliefs or not on who you vote for. The control panel of this country sucks big time!
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Only the people that hired them can fire them. The electorate gets more sheep-ish as time goes by. I suspect a conspiracy by the political party pillaging school funding, to "dumb down" future voters w sketchy schooling. It appears they are succeeding.
 
EYJONAS! said:
They're all a bunch of f#$%* waiting to get paid on the big scale
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When I was young and filled with unearned self-confidence in all my opinions, I was a partisan. My guys were heroes and the other guys were evil. And later when I was deeply involved day-to-day in the political process I ended up very jade and filled with disgust for the vast majority of politicians (on both sides of the aisle). It was not that they were in it for money or govt pensions (most already had financial security) - rather they were driven by ego and filled with hubris (even most of the seemingly humble ones). Now that I am what my team at work calls "seasoned", I have come to accept (but not happily) that for the most part our votes are for parties not for people.

Most of the votes that count and that are really in doubt are pre-ordained by party. Even those seemingly "independent" politicians are usually just orchestrating enough votes to claim that mantle. Once a politician casts their vote for "speaker/majority leader" so much is pre-determined for the rest of their term - committee chairs, committee composition, rules of order, conference committee makeup, direction of GOA, congressional investigatory authority, what bills even get a committee hearing or come to the floor - all determined by party affiliation, not by a "proud independent Kansan/NorthDakotan/Montanan voice".

I accept this is less so at the local level and maybe still a little bit less so at some lower population state levels, but in large population states and the fed level, party affiliation counts for 95% of the outcome most politicians will ever affect.
 
If the country keeps spending money that doesn't exist, I honestly don't think it matters who is in charge. Public lands will be in trouble from both sides of the isle. I'm convinced all politicians are like mutineers sharing the belly of the ship. As long as the ship is afloat, they will all bicker and fight about who should captain the ship. But as soon as the ship starts to go under, they are all swimming for the same lifeboat, and ideologies are temporarily lost in the commotion. My concern is that they will treat public lands like that lifeboat. They will use it and abuse it until it gets them to solid ground or a new ship, and toss it aside again when done. Both sides with their faux conservationalism will be sellers if it means saving themselves from going down with the ship. I'm not saying there aren't true conservationists on both sides, just that the deciphering is getting harder, and there is a lot of other things you have to consider. Just my $0.02
 
dcopas78 said:
If the country keeps spending money that doesn't exist, I honestly don't think it matters who is in charge. Public lands will be in trouble from both sides of the isle. I'm convinced all politicians are like mutineers sharing the belly of the ship. As long as the ship is afloat, they will all bicker and fight about who should captain the ship. But as soon as the ship starts to go under, they are all swimming for the same lifeboat, and ideologies are temporarily lost in the commotion. My concern is that they will treat public lands like that lifeboat. They will use it and abuse it until it gets them to solid ground or a new ship, and toss it aside again when done. Both sides with their faux conservationalism will be sellers if it means saving themselves from going down with the ship. I'm not saying there aren't true conservationists on both sides, just that the deciphering is getting harder, and there is a lot of other things you have to consider. Just my $0.02
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Your $0.02 is priceless IMO, dcopas. Exactly how I feel.
 
dcopas78 said:
...I'm not saying there aren't true conservationists on both sides, just that the deciphering is getting harder, and there is a lot of other things you have to consider. Just my $0.02
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The common denominator - a lot of other things you have to consider.
 
Sytes said:
The common denominator - a lot of other things you have to consider.
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Yup - a lotta' things to consider.
Here's one.
The majority on this forum grew up hunting and fishing during a time in which any threat to the Public Lands legacy - OF WHICH WE AT THE TIME WERE THE GRACED BENEFICIARIES - was not a concern.
These kids don't have the same luxury - which is exactly what we had.
Others can consider taxes, religion, government over reach, or Hillary's cell phone calls.
I'll choose this issue (which in fact is intricately tied to many others).
I'd like to see these kids be able to participate in a public forum like this one - warts and all - in a couple decades. Some might like to be able to battle over Public Lands issues like us idiots. Or even better - imagine if they didn't have to............
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I chose to beg forgiveness for stolen pics, rather than ask permission. Figured good guys would understand, others - meh:)
 
Or it could be worse. Imagine kids growing up in Venezuela right now. A lot of arrogant people on both sides of the aisle will tell you that could never happen in the USA, right up to when the dominoes start to fall. This is what concerns me the most.
 
Lot of truth in Dcopas post. The federal deficit is growing annually and projected to be $1 trillion in 3 years.
The treasury will bring in 2.99 trillion this year, yet we are running a deficit in the hundreds of billions of dollars. It cannot and will not sustain itself.
Nobody has the balls to kill someone else’s sacred cow. Someday we’ll be Greece if things don’t change course.
The only question is, will it collapse in our lifetimes? If we knew it would, we could go stone sheep hunting instead of pretending that we’ll get to retire.:)
 
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Hunting public lands is a major part of my life. But for me, there are more important issues. Voting exclusively on a public lands basis might be a luxury afforded to those that live in Rocky Mountain states. But for the rest of the country it’s simply not reality. My friends in Montana are split politically about 50/50 but 100% of my friends on the west coast are voting republican. The threats they face from the left with gun control, anti hunting legislation, immigration, taxes, simply outweigh everything. I don’t view Tester himself as a threat, but the people who control his party are no friend to the American outdoorsman any more than republicans are to public landowners. At the end of the day the economy is amazing, my company has doubled in size, hired new employees, plenty of cash to hunt public lands, might even make enough this year to pay for my oldest to go to college rather than have student loans. It leaves for some tough decisions.
 
MTGomer said:
The only question is, will it collapse in our lifetimes? If we knew it would, we could go stone sheep hunting instead of pretending that we’ll get to retire.:)
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Digitized greenbacks backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government or a stone sheep hunt? Tough call Gomer.:)
 
Deficit spending is likely going to hit 1 trillion per annum by 2020, thanks to the tax cut bill recently passed. If your core concern is reigning in out-of-control spending, you need to look at the biggest line items in the budget - military spending both in the discretionary budget & in the approved congressional CR & rampant spending without any power to negotiate drug prices within the healthcare system. The NDAA had a massive increase is deficit spending to fund our military. Some of that spending was well worth it - like raises for troops. Some of it is nothing more than pork-barrel spending for defense contractors whose CEO's make salaries rivaling Pharma companies.

There are free market solutions to bringing down gov't spending, but neither party has the will to buck those donors: Allowing the gov't to negotiate drug prices would significantly reduce spending, and would help eliminate the opiod epidemic. Even single payer would bring down the cost of healthcare by increasing the pool of insured to help reduce risk significantly. Both of those are free market solutions to healthcare costs, but pharma and insurance industries won't let that happen.

Whomever said that it's all interconnected is absolutely right. Public lands management suffers because pharma controls the VA, Medicare/Medicaid. Control the for-profit, gov't sanctioned drug pushers and a lot of other things get better.
 
Ben Lamb said:
Deficit spending is likely going to hit 1 trillion per annum by 2020, thanks to the cromnibus SPENDING packages and emergency continuing resolutions. If your core concern is reigning in out-of-control spending, you need to look at the biggest line items in the budget - military spending both in the discretionary budget & in the approved congressional CR & rampant spending without any power to negotiate drug prices within the healthcare system. The NDAA had a massive increase is deficit spending to fund our military. Some of that spending was well worth it - like raises for troops. Most of it is nothing more than pork-barrel spending for defense contractors whose CEO's make salaries rivaling Pharma companies. Eisenhower warned us about this.

There are free market solutions to bringing down gov't spending, but neither party has the will to buck those donors: Getting the gov't out of healthcare, education, eliminating unnecessary federal agencies and tens of thousands of parasite sector positions entirely would reduce spending, and legalizing marijuana would help eliminate the opiod epidemic, hitting the Mexican cartels in their pockets, result in less smuggling across our southern border, which would lessen the destruction to our public wildlife refuges, wilderness areas and national monuments caused by illegal off-road travel and litter by organized smuggling operations. Privatization would bring down the cost of healthcare by increasing competition significantly. Both of those are free market solutions to healthcare costs, and a safer and cleaner desert but pharma and insurance industries won't let that happen.

Whomever said that it's all interconnected is absolutely right. Public lands management suffers because pharma controls the VA, Medicare/Medicaid. Control the for-profit, gov't sanctioned drug pushers and a lot of other things get better.
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I agree
 
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Interesting dichotomy exists among us "public land hunters"....... how we look at our public lands:

From hank4elk: "Got to vote for some serious Pro Public Lands folks this year in NM....Senator,Congresspersons, Public Lands Commish & against the shithooks who would sell their mothers for a nickle......."

to Quackillr: "At the end of the day the economy is amazing, my company has doubled in size, hired new employees, plenty of cash to hunt public lands,......."

We are indeed a diverse bunch...............................
 
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