Gastro Gnome - Eat Better Wherever

Law enforcement on wildlife refuges

PrairieHunter said:
This is easily one of the dumbest comments I've seen. Congrats.

See how easy it is to play this game.
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Obviously it takes a much higher degree of intellect to realize that a broad brush generalization is rarely, if ever true. As a long time government employee, I can assure a simple mind such as yours, that my coworkers and I have routine, regular, and never ending discussions about how to streamline business and make things more efficient.

Ironically, now that a good share of government projects are contracted out, we see a very high degree of waste from the contractors themselves. All too often it seems contractors put forth shitty work that is not on time, but in the end it’s the fault of the government. So be it and I have long since given up on trying to convince people otherwise.

Go ahead and stand behind your absolute and broad brush statement about all government employees, regardless of how patently false it is.
 
PrairieHunter said:
This is easily one of the dumbest comments I've seen. Congrats.

See how easy it is to play this game.
Click to expand...

Also, congratulations on doubling down on the ignorance of your statement. An open minded person would’ve quickly realized that they pigeonholed a lot of really good workers into this simple statement. Instead of realizing this, you uppped the ante. Bravo sir, well done
 
PrairieHunter said:
Just because people have a different opinion does not mean there is a lack of understanding. As a government employee your perspective is going to be different than someone like myself who owns their own business as we come from opposite ends of the spectrum. You rely on the government for your well being, so it's not surprising that you have a biased opinion on the matter. I do not require the government to provide my income so I see things much differently.

Asking a government employee about efficiency/waste at their office is like asking a coal mine employee about global warming, you know the answer before they open their mouth.

As far as waste at government offices it's rampant from NWR's, USFS, to USDA offices. You obviously don't like talking about that but that does not mean it's any less true.

As a person who worked in government contracting I can tell you how often contractors take advantage of government agencies when they waste money. Worst I ever saw was up in Hot Springs, we did a nearly million dollar lining job on a 48" pipe that had never had water run through it. COE is just as bad as NWR's and USFS it seems. Please spare me the stories about needing more funding as I know better and have watched contractors take advantage of government morons for millions in places where the agencies whine about lack of funding.

We agree that more LEO are needed so we have that going for us.
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I agree with JLS, most of this post is perhaps the dumbest and most ignorant posts I've ever seen posted on HT.

That said, there is no question that ANY business or any Government Agency (State, Federal, etc.) can find efficiencies to conduct business better. To be precise, there are businesses that make a lot of money doing just that for agencies and business. We do it all the time...out of necessity, responsibility and to be accountable to the tax payer...and further its simply the right thing to do.

What I understand, that you don't, is what's gone on for the last 20 years with regard to staffing, budgets, and the like with the Government. Many times, the agencies are required to contract work out, just the way it is. Sometimes that can result in cost savings, sometimes not, again just the way it is.

But, to say that funding for land management agencies is adequate for the demands people like you put on the agency...pure B.S. The agencies have routinely been under hiring freezes for long periods of time. Their budgets have remained flat for years and years and years. Government employees are typically paid about 70 cents on the dollar for the same work conducted by the private sector.

Unlike your OPINION, I like to state facts and I've seen the Land Management Agencies struggle to maintain skeleton staffing levels and "do more with less" for well over 20 years. I know very few FS/BLM employees that are not doing work that should be at higher pay grades, doing multiple jobs, jobs outside their PD's, all to keep the doors open. These are realities that I see every day...I'm not forced to guess.

You base your assumptions that one COE job you worked on, that in YOUR opinion was wasteful, translates to every Federal Agency is exactly the same.

I would really like to dig into your example...something I'm very good at and see just what happened. From past experiences looking into these types of "off the cuff" comments, I would be 100% sure there's a lot more to the story than you're expecting people to believe. Not saying you're a liar, but again, in my experience its pretty common for people to leave out details that don't promote their narrative. Also a good chance, you weren't the primary on the contract and likely never saw a copy. Further if you saw this happen, and its at all truthful, why not be a man and step up and blow the whistle? I would, and in a heartbeat, wouldn't even think twice about it.

As an aside, not real bright for a private company owner to run down potential customers who work for the .gov and may purchase your products...but, that's just me. Consumers have lots of options on who they do business with...and many exercise that daily.

Oh, and finally...GO GRIZ!
 
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PrairieHunter said:
Just because people have a different opinion does not mean there is a lack of understanding. As a government employee your perspective is going to be different than someone like myself who owns their own business as we come from opposite ends of the spectrum. You rely on the government for your well being, so it's not surprising that you have a biased opinion on the matter. I do not require the government to provide my income so I see things much differently.

Asking a government employee about efficiency/waste at their office is like asking a coal mine employee about global warming, you know the answer before they open their mouth.

As far as waste at government offices it's rampant from NWR's, USFS, to USDA offices. You obviously don't like talking about that but that does not mean it's any less true.

As a person who worked in government contracting I can tell you how often contractors take advantage of government agencies when they waste money. Worst I ever saw was up in Hot Springs, we did a nearly million dollar lining job on a 48" pipe that had never had water run through it. COE is just as bad as NWR's and USFS it seems. Please spare me the stories about needing more funding as I know better and have watched contractors take advantage of government morons for millions in places where the agencies whine about lack of funding.

We agree that more LEO are needed so we have that going for us.
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I can’t think of many Refuge employees who DON’T bitch about the waste and ridiculous rules that dictate how the budgets can be spent. One of the biggest wastes of government resources I’ve personally seen? Yep, contractors. Shoddy work for twice what Joe Public would pay, topped off with 20% or more overhead costs way more to do the same work we used to do in house. But guess where the responsibility for this waste ultimately lies? With Congress, who dole out budgets with strings attached. Their favorite is that the vast majority of appropriated funds that go to Refuges can’t be used for salary. So there’s always money for stuff, just not for people to do work. That’s by design, of course...the stated goal being we want smaller government in the form of fewer FTEs. Which comes back to why there are no staff available to enhance your weekend visitor experience.

Must have been awhile since you were at any of those refuges you mentioned. Last time I checked, there were 23 permanent positions (23 FTE) responsible for Valentine, Crescent Lake, Ft. Niobrara, LaCreek and two unstaffed refuges (with one full time LEO and possibly a dual function or two among them, and some of those positions were already vacant due to hiring freezes). The last plan I saw for restructuring called for cutting that number of staff to 13.5 FTE. I wouldn’t hold my breathe waiting for weekend staffing.
 
BuzzH said:
I agree with JLS, most of this post is perhaps the dumbest and most ignorant posts I've ever seen posted on HT.

That said, there is no question that ANY business or any Government Agency (State, Federal, etc.) can find efficiencies to conduct business better. To be precise, there are businesses that make a lot of money doing just that for agencies and business. We do it all the time...out of necessity, responsibility and to be accountable to the tax payer...and further its simply the right thing to do.

What I understand, that you don't, is what's gone on for the last 20 years with regard to staffing, budgets, and the like with the Government. Many times, the agencies are required to contract work out, just the way it is. Sometimes that can result in cost savings, sometimes not, again just the way it is.

But, to say that funding for land management agencies is adequate for the demands people like you put on the agency...pure B.S. The agencies have routinely been under hiring freezes for long periods of time. Their budgets have remained flat for years and years and years. Government employees are typically paid about 70 cents on the dollar for the same work conducted by the private sector.

Unlike your OPINION, I like to state facts and I've seen the Land Management Agencies struggle to maintain skeleton staffing levels and "do more with less" for well over 20 years. I know very few FS/BLM employees that are not doing work that should be at higher pay grades, doing multiple jobs, jobs outside their PD's, all to keep the doors open. These are realities that I see every day...I'm not forced to guess.

You base your assumptions that one COE job you worked on, that in YOUR opinion was wasteful, translates to every Federal Agency is exactly the same.

I would really like to dig into your example...something I'm very good at and see just what happened. From past experiences looking into these types of "off the cuff" comments, I would be 100% sure there's a lot more to the story than you're expecting people to believe. Not saying you're a liar, but again, in my experience its pretty common for people to leave out details that don't promote their narrative. Also a good chance, you weren't the primary on the contract and likely never saw a copy. Further if you saw this happen, and its at all truthful, why not be a man and step up and blow the whistle? I would, and in a heartbeat, wouldn't even think twice about it.

As an aside, not real bright for a private company owner to run down potential customers who work for the .gov and may purchase your products...but, that's just me. Consumers have lots of options on who they do business with...and many exercise that daily.

Oh, and finally...GO GRIZ!
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Thanks for the entertainment Buzz. Pretty obvious that you are getting upset and emotional, editing posts, personal insults, etc... The reason it bothers you so much is because you know what I said is true. Funny how that works.

Best of luck convincing the country that the federal government agencies need more funding and are efficient at what they do. You have a lot of people to convince.

I was the person in charge of the entire project from bidding to completion. Cottonwood reservoir, Hot Springs SD Pipe had never seen water since lake was built. Spent 900k putting a liner in it because it sagged 3 inches in the middle. But that government office was also understaffed and dealing with budget cuts, LOL. Kid in charge had to lay off part of the fall, but they had a million for the unnecessary project. See the issue?

I watched the Chadron USFS office put in a 700k geothermal system that will literally never pay out. Those contractors take advantage of the situations that are put out to bid. Happens every day.

Did you see the VA hospital disaster in Colorado a while back? The list just goes on and on.

As always you are entitled to your opinion. And feel free to suggest the government purchase biochar from whoever you think is best, LOL. Hilarious that you went there but I guess not surprising as you obviously are getting emotions involved.

At least we agree that there needs to be more LEO.
 
Rowdy,

Don't flatter yourself, nothing you say bothers me in the slightest. Seen it all, heard it all...its the same bullchit you posted, that I've heard for the last 32 years. You probably still believe the government pays $900 for a hammer and the world is flat...its the same old worn out lines/lies, over and over again.

You've been properly and completely schooled on this thread, by multiple posters that provided facts and deal in reality, it happens.

Cheer up and better luck next time.

Go Griz!
 
Hunting Wife said:
I can’t think of many Refuge employees who DON’T bitch about the waste and ridiculous rules that dictate how the budgets can be spent. One of the biggest wastes of government resources I’ve personally seen? Yep, contractors. Shoddy work for twice what Joe Public would pay, topped off with 20% or more overhead costs way more to do the same work we used to do in house. But guess where the responsibility for this waste ultimately lies? With Congress, who dole out budgets with strings attached. Their favorite is that the vast majority of appropriated funds that go to Refuges can’t be used for salary. So there’s always money for stuff, just not for people to do work. That’s by design, of course...the stated goal being we want smaller government in the form of fewer FTEs. Which comes back to why there are no staff available to enhance your weekend visitor experience.

Must have been awhile since you were at any of those refuges you mentioned. Last time I checked, there were 23 permanent positions (23 FTE) responsible for Valentine, Crescent Lake, Ft. Niobrara, LaCreek and two unstaffed refuges (with one full time LEO and possibly a dual function or two among them, and some of those positions were already vacant due to hiring freezes). The last plan I saw for restructuring called for cutting that number of staff to 13.5 FTE. I wouldn’t hold my breathe waiting for weekend staffing.
Click to expand...

I will agree with you that many NWR employees I have been around liked to bitch. Some places employees spend a lot more time bitching than other places it seems.

Thanks for bringing up some great info. With only 23 permanent positions over those areas it's amazing that at least two that I know of have built brand new headquarters in the last decade, Valentine and Crescent Lake, I am not sure on the others. And that's on top of the 100k graders, dozers, tractors, etc... that they have sitting most of the year and will end up selling a decade from now with almost no hours. Amazing to think with all the budget cuts, hiring freezes, etc they had the money to abandon buildings and build brand new ones out in very remote locations which is very expensive. Sadly LaCreek really needs its' own full time LEO to deal with issues on the weekends and heavy hunting pressure during deer and pheasant season but places like Crescent Lake really don't have but a handful of people visit outside deer season and few of those start trouble so they could probably get away with simply staffing an office on weekends when the birders and other recreation seeking folks need directions, maps, and to have questions answered.

I have no expectations for weekend staffing at places like NWR"s or USFS offices in recreation areas in the future. It's unfortunate that those places are primarily closed when they have the most people recreating.
 
BuzzH said:
Rowdy,

Don't flatter yourself, nothing you say bothers me in the slightest. Seen it all, heard it all...its the same bullchit you posted, that I've heard for the last 32 years. You probably still believe the government pays $900 for a hammer and the world is flat...its the same old worn out lines/lies, over and over again.

You've been properly and completely schooled on this thread, by multiple posters that provided facts and deal in reality, it happens.

Cheer up and better luck next time.

Go Griz!
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Wow,

You really are upset about this. Talk about the same old same old. Geesh, just grow up and understand that it's ok for people to have a different opinion than you. It's perfectly OK to do so, no insults, cussing, etc required like happens when people get upset.

Actually I have backed up my opinions with facts and examples. In the end we disagree. But if you want to believe you "schooled" me go for it. It's part of your internet tough guy act and I am not insecure enough to play that game. Notice I have taken the high road with no personal insults.

As always you are entitled to your opinion of government waste but you are obviously biased as a government employee so it's not surprising you have this reaction. Try not to take things so personally as I think everyone on the hunt sites has seen you do this. You still have a long way to go if your plan is to convince the public that ll the government needs is more money. The vast majority of Americans share my opinion of government waste, I can assure you of that.

It's perfectly OK for people to have different opinions as long as everyone can be an adult. It's also pretty obvious who has won in an argument by looking at who is resorting to personal insults. It's a very childish reaction used by many on the webs. You are getting better from your "1 firing brain cell" days but still have a long way to go.

Why do you keep saying "Go Griz"? I am not a cat backer.
 
PrairieHunter said:
I will agree with you that many NWR employees I have been around liked to bitch. Some places employees spend a lot more time bitching than other places it seems.

Thanks for bringing up some great info. With only 23 permanent positions over those areas it's amazing that at least two that I know of have built brand new headquarters in the last decade, Valentine and Crescent Lake, I am not sure on the others. And that's on top of the 100k graders, dozers, tractors, etc... that they have sitting most of the year and will end up selling a decade from now with almost no hours. Amazing to think with all the budget cuts, hiring freezes, etc they had the money to abandon buildings and build brand new ones out in very remote locations which is very expensive. Sadly LaCreek really needs its' own full time LEO to deal with issues on the weekends and heavy hunting pressure during deer and pheasant season but places like Crescent Lake really don't have but a handful of people visit outside deer season and few of those start trouble so they could probably get away with simply staffing an office on weekends when the birders and other recreation seeking folks need directions, maps, and to have questions answered.

I have no expectations for weekend staffing at places like NWR"s or USFS offices in recreation areas in the future. It's unfortunate that those places are primarily closed when they have the most people recreating.
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Rowdy,

When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging.

You're just embarrassing yourself now. Typically upgrades to things like buildings and new construction, are an appropriation from Congress separate from annual budget expenditures. Your comparison of new buildings and 23 FTE is well past "off the mark". Also clearly shows your lack of knowledge regarding annual budgeting, appropriations, etc.

Its already been pointed out, a couple times now, that road graders, dozers, and tractors don't operate themselves. Without proper funding, agencies cant hire employees to operate the equipment you're whining about.

Lets not also forget that its been a long assed time since ANY agency hasn't been on a CR because Congress cant seem to do their job of approving a yearly budget. No Manager in their right mind would spend money they aren't sure they'll have.

Once again, we're on a CR spending package to fund the government through Dec. 7. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY knows what their 2019 budgets will be. You think its a good idea to hire a bunch of folks to operate your equipment when you don't have a budget?

You have no idea what you're talking about.
 
JLS said:
Obviously it takes a much higher degree of intellect to realize that a broad brush generalization is rarely, if ever true. As a long time government employee, I can assure a simple mind such as yours, that my coworkers and I have routine, regular, and never ending discussions about how to streamline business and make things more efficient.

Ironically, now that a good share of government projects are contracted out, we see a very high degree of waste from the contractors themselves. All too often it seems contractors put forth shitty work that is not on time, but in the end it’s the fault of the government. So be it and I have long since given up on trying to convince people otherwise.

Go ahead and stand behind your absolute and broad brush statement about all government employees, regardless of how patently false it is.
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I guess my opinion that NWR's waste money on equipment and projects that could better be used on other things like LEO bothered you.

I was pointing out how childish your reaction was by mimicking it. I guess you didn't get it and ironically began the personal insults about simple minds because you were that upset. Hilarious.

Most Americans believe half of every federal dollar spent is wasted. I tend to agree.
https://reason.com/poll/2014/04/11/americans-say-government-wastes-half-of

The funniest part of all this is that you blame contractors for the unnecessary projects that the government dreams up. The issue is with who is putting out the bids for this work and doing the spending/wasting. Hard to be in charge of the money and also be the victim. Out of curiosity did you follow the VA hospital project in Denver, perfect example of what I am talking about.

If you want to know how most Americans feel about gov't workers here you go.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...americans_say_government_workers_have_it_made

I am not going to get upset, or insult you, claim you have a simple mind, are dumb, etc.. I only mimicked you to show how childish the behavior was. I am perfectly fine with your opinion of government waste as it's not surprising since you are a government employee. Perfectly understandable and no reason to get emotional, insults, names, etc....

In the end I see enough waste on projects and equipment to fund more LEO positions at NWR's and USFS/BLM , and I'd like to see more of these offices open on the weekends to also help deter crime as well as be open when these areas are busiest. If you disagree I'm fine with that.
 
BuzzH said:
Rowdy,

When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging.

You're just embarrassing yourself now. Typically upgrades to things like buildings and new construction, are an appropriation from Congress separate from annual budget expenditures. Your comparison of new buildings and 23 FTE is well past "off the mark". Also clearly shows your lack of knowledge regarding annual budgeting, appropriations, etc.

Its already been pointed out, a couple times now, that road graders, dozers, and tractors don't operate themselves. Without proper funding, agencies cant hire employees to operate the equipment you're whining about.

Lets not also forget that its been a long assed time since ANY agency hasn't been on a CR because Congress cant seem to do their job of approving a yearly budget. No Manager in their right mind would spend money they aren't sure they'll have.

Once again, we're on a CR spending package to fund the government through Dec. 7. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY knows what their 2019 budgets will be. You think its a good idea to hire a bunch of folks to operate your equipment when you don't have a budget?

You have no idea what you're talking about.
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Buzz,

As mentioned feel free to claim victory. I know it's part of your act and you think you know pretty much everything it seems.

I don't need to run around pretending to have "schooled" you or do any of that childish insulting. I'll let people draw their own conclusion as you already know most Americans feel the way I do about government spending/waste.

I posted some links in the last post if you are interested. TLDR is most Americans feel half of federal agency spending is waste, and that government employees have it made doing less work than others. It may be hard for you to believe but that's what most Americans think. I tend to agree..

The federal government is not particularly good at doing anything it seems, even your example of budgets confirms this. As do my examples of blatant waste. I think the VA hospital in Denver was among the worst I have ever seen.

I know first hand what I am talking about, you simply have a different opinion and are struggling to deal with mine. That's why you are doing all the childish insults, cussing, editing posts, etc... But not surprising as you are a lifetime government employee so this strikes home with you.

In the end I see enough waste on unnecessary projects and equipment at NWR's and would rather see that $ put toward LEO and recreational area offices being open when busiest to help deter crime/vandalism. You think more funding is needed for government agencies for this as well as long term funding which allow better planning for spending as well as gives you peace of mind as a lifetime government employee.

Do you not see how your being a federal employee might make you have a different view of this than the vast majority of Americans? Seems obvious to me.

I'm glad you figured out I was not a cat backer. Was getting weird with your college football cheers in the middle of a conversation about government waste.
 
There were many more new visitor centers than just those two...there were projects done by numerous agencies across the country. The money for them was appropriated by Congress in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, and came with orders that thou shalt build new facilities and infrastructure to put Americans back to work. Sounds like you yourself may have benefited from some of those cherry contracts, so let’s be fair about who relies on the government for their paycheck. That money was never part of agency budgets. Furthermore, the money “wasted” on contracts and equipment that you seem so stuck on can’t be used for more LEOs, can’t be used for weekend staff because Congress won’t allow it. No one in the Fish and Wildlife Service gets to make that decision, but go ahead and keep bashing the gov employees.

Sad that your anti-government bias prevents you from absorbing information that illustrates how your opinion is based on serious failure to grasp the concepts of federal appropriations and budgets. It’s an interesting commentary that you would prefer Refuges expend their funds to provide supervised play time for recreationists rather than focus on their mission which is conservation. Without the conservation, there is no recreation. Seems so obvious. It’s conversations like this that make me think conservation and the future of hunting is completely screwed.

Yep, serving an ungrateful public is a super cush job.
I’ve exceeded my tolerance of willful ignorance for one thread.
 
PrairieHunter said:
I guess my opinion that NWR's waste money on equipment and projects that could better be used on other things like LEO bothered you.

I was pointing out how childish your reaction was by mimicking it. I guess you didn't get it and ironically began the personal insults about simple minds because you were that upset. Hilarious.

Most Americans believe half of every federal dollar spent is wasted. I tend to agree.
https://reason.com/poll/2014/04/11/americans-say-government-wastes-half-of

The funniest part of all this is that you blame contractors for the unnecessary projects that the government dreams up. The issue is with who is putting out the bids for this work and doing the spending/wasting. Hard to be in charge of the money and also be the victim. Out of curiosity did you follow the VA hospital project in Denver, perfect example of what I am talking about.

If you want to know how most Americans feel about gov't workers here you go.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...americans_say_government_workers_have_it_made

I am not going to get upset, or insult you, claim you have a simple mind, are dumb, etc.. I only mimicked you to show how childish the behavior was. I am perfectly fine with your opinion of government waste as it's not surprising since you are a government employee. Perfectly understandable and no reason to get emotional, insults, names, etc....

In the end I see enough waste on projects and equipment to fund more LEO positions at NWR's and USFS/BLM , and I'd like to see more of these offices open on the weekends to also help deter crime as well as be open when these areas are busiest. If you disagree I'm fine with that.
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I stand behind my simple mind comment 100%. It's not an insult, it's an observation. Let's go back to your original statement:

Asking a government employee about efficiency/waste at their office is like asking a coal mine employee about global warming, you know the answer before they open their mouth.
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Simple minds like to make things binary because it's easier to comprehend. Things can only be black or white, and then we don't have to think about the gray area because it doesn't exist. Much like your comment that clearly labels all government employees as being complicit in inefficiency and waste and don't agree it happens. As I stated, this is far from the truth in the world I work in, not just for me but also for many of my colleagues.

I completely got your mimicry, and found it on the grade school level of dialogue. Pretty much on par with "I know you are but what am I?" Hilarious.

Certainly every government agency wastes money on equipment and projects. I can't speak to the NWR system because I don't work in it. The agency I work for has been audited numerous times to analyze efficiencies, and despite public perception, has fared pretty darned well. As Buzz said, it gets old doing more with less. At a certain point, you just have to do less and that's where you see equipment idle because positions aren't funded to use it.

If you think the NWR can sell road graders to put more LEOs on the ground, you're wrong. Pure and simple. Most people don't have any idea how funding works and don't care to learn. You simply can't use capital project appropriations and operations appropriations to hire people. Nor can you sell equipment to avoid laying people off.

I don't blame contractors for unnecessary projects. Go back and read again. I blamed them for doing shitty work and not completing it on time. There is a difference. Also hard to be a victim of government waste when your using it to bankroll your paycheck.

As I stated earlier, most folks don't have any idea the construction project, road project, whatever is being done by a private contractor. They see it as government. So, when they see the private employee leaning on his shovel, which I do quite often, they think "lazy government employee". And of course there are some. Just like there are lazy people in the private sector.

If I willfully made an ignorant blanket statement like yours, I would fully expect to get called out on it. You did and now you claim to be the victim. Hilarious.

If you want to change things, then go work with your senators and representatives to make things different. However, it would help you had some understanding of why certain things are they way they are (hint congressional mandates, laws, etc).
 
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To the OP, my apologies for taking part in the thread derailment. To your original point, this is both a good and a bad thing.

Part time LEOs can be a boon and a bane. Quackkiller's experience is not an isolated one. Some people don't belong in law enforcement, pure and simple. However, the part time commissions were doled out like candy back in the day to put more boots and badges on the ground.

Personlly, I think part time law enforcement just carries too much liability in order to make it worthwhile. Others may disagree, but when you are tasking someone who spends a great deal of their time in another capacity to now go out and deal with violators, that would make me absolutely cringe as an administrator. However, the failure to back fill the eliminated FTEs with full time LEO FTEs is disturbing, to say the least.

My guess is this is as stepping stone to contracting out enforcement work to local counties and/or municipalities. Sometimes contract work is beneficial, other times it's not. As it pertains to NWR enforcement, I am absolutely not a fan of contracting this work out to local LE agencies. However, this is all speculation on my part.

It's a shitty deal with no real clear cut answer, because as Buzz pointed out, Congress refuses to pass a budget with appropriations to fund the FTEs to put people on the ground. Maybe Wal Mart will contract out some greeters to work on weekends.
 
Buzz/JLS
Have you seen any federal agencies/departments within them that are under the DOI or USDA in the northern Rockies that are, in your opinion, either overstaffed or overfunded?
 
MTGomer said:
Buzz/JLS
Have you seen any federal agencies/departments within them that are under the DOI or USDA in the northern Rockies that are, in your opinion, either overstaffed or overfunded?
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I haven't seen an org chart in 20 years that was fully staffed...due entirely to budget constraints.

That has resulted in backlogs of road/trail maintenance, backlogs on fuel reduction programs, burn programs that are behind schedule, wildlife projects that haven't been completed, one LEO position where 3-4 are needed, centralized and inefficient HR, and the list goes on and on.

This has all been done to hamstring the Agencies and politicians are complicit and responsible for nearly all of it. Its big sport in Washington DC to give the wealthy and corporations every possible tax break under the sun and make up for the lack of tax revenue and corporate give-aways, on the backs of federal agencies and employees.

Then in the absolute height of hypocrisy, complain that the agencies cant get their work done.

The gullible public, they buy the political BS/lies hook-line-sinker...unbelievable.
 
Well, This has been interesting to say the least. I do agree with Buzz that Wyoming G&F needs to improve their response to people who turn in poachers. I turned in a guy who shot a Cow Moose with a calf at it's side in the Snowies a few years ago. I looked all over hell to find a warden, and then took him back to the kill site about 10 miles away. The calf was still there near the gut pile. I never got any follow up. It took me some 4 or 5 calls to the G&F in Laramie to track down the warden I reported the incident to. He said they were questioning a suspect. That was it. No word on if a citation was issued or any court outcome. Pretty poor Customer relations IMO anyway. Made me feel like reporting the incident was a waste of time.
 
Buzz mentioned mileage caps earlier. There are a number of ways legislators incorporate "Band-Aid" fixes. I don't know if Montana still does, but at one point they were legislatively mandated to utilize vacancy savings. In a nutshell, every time a position was vacated (retirement, promotion, transfer) that FTE was to remain vacant for 6 months. It's a shell game where legislators don't have to answer to the public for eliminating FTEs.

Or, they legislature can fully fund the FTEs, but not fully fund the operations budget. This leads you to situations where you have mandated mileage caps in order to stay within the operations budget, however inadequate it may be.
 
These conversations should highlight the importance for sportsmen and women to vote and continue to voice their concerns to their elected representatives. Only when public land advocates demand action and put politicians jobs in jeopardy will they change their current position on public land management and funding.
 
Schism said:
These conversations should highlight the importance for sportsmen and women to vote and continue to voice their concerns to their elected representatives. Only when public land advocates demand action and put politicians jobs in jeopardy will they change their current position on public land management and funding.
Click to expand...

Lotsa' sportsmen/women vote for things such as lower taxes, less regulation, etc. - public land management and funding and those things don't (currently) go together too well. Interesting times.

Imagine Sportsmen/women, agencies, politicians, industry, etc. working together to demand and actually implement more efficient use of taxes and regulation in order to actually make an attempt to better fund and manage public lands. Take a lotta' work, might be a stretch..................
 
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