Ollin Magnetic Digiscoping System

Elk and wolves...

Sytes

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
12,844
Location
Montana
You may consider this a wolf bashing thread. So be it.

I've visited a specific HD ground in the P-burg, MT area since '03. I Know it well... I've hunted, fished, scouted and simply backpacked this area frequently while I lived in the Missoula area. I now drive the distance from Whitefish because it's tough to leave the trained area though scouting is simply a thing of the past due to time constraints and just out of weekend enjoyment range.

PANO_20180923_162537.jpg

I've observed over the course of this short stint of 15 years a significant transformation due to that *terror of terrors, the big bad wolf.

Originally, I never heard from a wolf. My harvest rate for filling the freezer had been good though diminished to the disappointing truth of yearly increased wolf pressure. I need to move on and walk away from the archery wallows, draws and coolies located over time - honeyholes. My friendships with land owners and simply the incredible seclusion within our public lands.
I'm bummed though it is what it is.

I've just returned from my annual 6 day archery hunt - skunked again. Over the course of this recent trek to the various sucessful locations within this district we managed to call in two separate packs of wolves or maybe the same pack though roughly ten miles separating the two locations days apart. The picture above, my partner and I called for elk and after routing to different favored draws that filter into the meadow, we had a pack that howled their heads off. As we spotted what we believe was the alpha, the barking alerts began. We heard from both sides of our position. It was eerie. We made our way out and back to camp as the sun dropped.
Two days later we moved a good distance, roughly ten miles and again, our calls brought in another wolf. We didn't hear the pack mentality mentioned above though the one wolf howl made it clear the reason we had yet to hear a single bull bugle or a cow to call.
'03, - '11 freezer valued elk meat. '12 injury took me out of archery. '13 - present, wolves became more and more prevalent and elk became less and less.
People claim various predators cause elk loss and I agree it's always been the case. That was and is a constant normal factor, however the wolves have made a significant return to the detriment of the elk population, imo.

Here is the source side of their significant rebound... Our hunts are not keeping up with effective management of their advancing growth. I'm not and many of my friends and contacts are not wolf hunters. Most are opportunistic wolf tag owners though it costs $$$ to taxi the hides, skulls, or make mounts of, etc. ***Mostly we hunt for big game freezer filling meat and some are quite adept to trophy big game.

I believe the wolf growth is exceeding the dedicated predator hunters ability to keep them within a reasonable population. I believe we need alternatives to maintaining a healthy, yet controlled population. Be it, additional paid hunters, etc. I don't believe this is a MT issue only. I've heard it from friends in ID and imagine it's the same in WY.

Wolf rant over. Off to deal with wolves closer to my area and restart the search for, "fresh tracks".

Cheers all.

Edit: Oh, BTW... I found a GPS unit along a game trail to a favored set of wallows in HD 211. Seems we share a spot that once held value. I believe we also cross called our bugles while I hit an area close to the wallows as I heard your calls from that general area. You may have a white Chevy p/u. If you know of or you personally lost your GPS, PM me the usual details and I'll ship it to ya. Once I unpack, I'll check it for a *home waypoint and see if I can reach out to you while respecting your personal hunt waypoints.
 
Last edited:
If you and your friends are not actively hunting wolves in your ‘honey hole’ then you are part of the problem. Why don’t your take the time to do a little population control instead of ranting about it here? FWP gives us the opportunity to help control this problem, it’s our fault if we don’t take them up on it...
 
If only it were that easy...
17,000+ tags purchased. Between those and all the amatuer and professional wolf trappers in MT (as an example) we average 200-250 wolves per year over the last few years.
 
6 month wolf season and 5 tags, 4 month trapping season and they get 5 tags. Majority of the elk HD’s are over objective, lots with 6 month seasons, lots with depredation hunts, most HD’s allow 2 elk.

What’s the problem again?
 
I am completely neutral on wolf issues. Don't love 'em nor hate 'em. Have no interest is shooting one but have no problem with someone else doing it.
Also not interested in a protracted discussion about the topic. And definitely not trying to prod you at all Sytes. You are not the only hunter who claims this. However.....
Hearing yet another hunter reason that hearing no elk vocalization(s) can be directly blamed on a wolf howl/presence, cracks my cynical smile. No other factor could possibly be to blame......
 
6 month wolf season and 5 tags, 4 month trapping season and they get 5 tags. Majority of the elk HD’s are over objective, lots with 6 month seasons, lots with depredation hunts, most HD’s allow 2 elk.

What’s the problem again?

Amazing with all the opportunities and season duration you present, the best MT manages... 240 wuffs.
 
I would think that if that area has so many "Woofs" in it then maybe switch to "Woof" hunting instead. Can't beat em join em is my motto.

I spent 10 days straight, in arguably, one of the highest density predator areas in Western Montana. Had a great time covering old haunts and exploring new ones. Yes many areas are void of Elk, at least they were when I ventured into them. Others had lots of Elk only to be ran out by a pack of wolves. The Elk went on to others areas to do their thing with the wolves in toe. I called in one wolf to 67 yards that sat on his arse and looked at me. Later I set my target out at 70 to see just how it might have turned out had I released a arrow. Lets just say I'd had a picture or two for you viewing. The days I spent hunting in that area are a blessing to me and with the wolf their makes it much more interesting. Looking forward to showing a picture or two this year of yours truly posing with one. I had opportunities at several 300 class bulls, and came face to face with a real hog. Hopefully I can find him this weekend.

When life gives you lemons, make lemon aide. (If you consider that area a lemon now) You can rifle hunt those wolves right now as we speak, so get after em and good luck.
 
TJones,
That's the interesting aspect for counts.

They are using an estimate that measures different from the past and I believe it's around 900 in MT.

Interesting enough, the numbers continue to grow yet we stay the same with harvest rates.

2014, as an example, they estimated 550 or so, yet the same 220 or so wolves were harvested.

Some believe more, others believe less. 900 wolves are a heck of a lot when a majority are in the NW area, as you're aware.

SS, if I still lived close enough to measure my days off scouting, etc I would certainly take that up. I appreciate the lemon to lemonade analogy. It fits along with Fire 9's comment. However, I know my OP may be a bit long though it details more of my disappointment with the situation. I moved outside of weekend fun, further NW. I believe the setting that's most disappointing is giving up on an area well learned, to start anew.
Appreciate the post.
 
Last edited:
So what other specie do we comfortable kill over a 25% of the estimated population?

The answer is none.

In 46 years of elk hunting MT I have had 8 seasons I didn’t kill an elk. All but 3 were bulls, all but 2 were on public land. I feel those years I didn’t kill an elk I did a poor job of hunting, but that’s just me.
 
Last edited:
So what other specie do we comfortable kill over a 25% of the estimated population?

The answer is none.

In 46 years of elk hunting MT I have had 8 seasons I didn’t kill an elk. I feel those years I did a poor job of hunting, but that’s just me.

That's the interesting query over #'s... Not but three years earlier we had a 50% harvest ratio (550 wolves, 220 harvest)... Yet now their numbers have tripled - following your identification of #'s. (900 wolves, 240 harvested)
 
If there here no elk where you were hunting, what were the wolves eating? I know they don’t like salads.
 
If there here no elk where you were hunting, what were the wolves eating? I know they don’t like salads.

And here... we agree. Never said there were no elk. Though reduced #'s significantly due to the wolves.
 
I have hunted this general area my entire life. The hunting is less than half of what it once was, but more than twice what it was six or seven years ago when nearly 2 dozen wolves were killed from a helicopter. It does seem that the upper rock creek moose are making a comeback. Although it is still far from one of the best shiras tags in the world like it once was, it is again a tag worth having, unlike six or eight years ago.
 
I have hunted this general area my entire life. The hunting is less than half of what it once was, but more than twice what it was six or seven years ago when nearly 2 dozen wolves were killed from a helicopter. It does seem that the upper rock creek moose are making a comeback. Although it is still far from one of the best shiras tags in the world like it once was, it is again a tag worth having, unlike six or eight years ago.

I don't disagree that things have changed dramatically since wolf reintroduction/population recovery. Elk move differently, don't bugle as much (which could be a function of too many buglers in the woods as well) and they act a helluva lot more wild than they have in the past.

But I think Gomer's post deserves a little exploration: Hunting isn't and never should be about consistent regularity. Wildlife management is about peaks and valleys, with or without large carnivores. In several areas there are die offs, harboring, etc that change herd dynamics, just like wolves change where elk hang out, etc. When we try to manage on a level plane, then we set ourselves up for expectations that don't comport with reality and certainly not with what mother nature intended.

Sytes, I hear you on areas you've hunted for a long time not being as dependable as they once were. It sucks to put that much time into getting an area dailed in only to have it change dramatically. I have spots like that as well, some in high predator areas some not. I've always chalked that up to being part of the game.

Cheers, and I hope you plug a big old male woof. They're a heck of a trophy.
 
Agree. The dynamics have certainly changed. I'm a bit annoyed at myself to a degree for getting out to hunt and coming up empty, again. Lack of pre-hunt scouting on my part has taken it's toll.
It is what it is.

Thanks guys for the discussion.
 
Stepping back from this specific issue with wolves it seems that predators are gaining ground the last decade. We went from few wolves, few griz, and lower numbers of lions in most of the country as past generations pushed them back. Suddenly those numbers have gone up, while at the same time management has lagged behind. No Griz season in WY so far, delayed wolf seasons in MT, lion season finally opening this year in Nebraska, Western states not actively managing bears or lions, wolves showing up in new states where they never have been, lion populations booming, etc. The number of human interactions with these predators is completely out of control, I know the area I previously lived in Nebraska nearly every neighbor had shot a lion around their house over a few year period. Yet the season was cancelled due to one politician in Lincoln much like the situation with the griz hunt where one person is able to undermine science and management.

It's been a good decade for predators in the US. Hopefully our wildlife managers can get a hold of the situation in the coming years.
 
Back
Top