Ollin Magnetic Digiscoping System

Green backpacker

shaffe48 said:
But it's definitely a subset.of hunters that will really enjoy 2x the benefits to justify 2x the cost. For beginning hunters who don't even know how long they will stick with it or what they really want or how they will use their gear this is even more true...unless you have a lot.of expendable income.
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^ Exactly, (definitely an argument to be made for buy once cry once as there is for all gear) also and I'm paraphrasing Steven Rinella talking optics: If we happen to meet at the trail head next season and you start complaining about your bag, but at the same time giving me shit about the cost of my Stone Glacier while standing next to your $40k '19 Tacoma I'm going to jump in my '06 corolla with disgust.
 
wllm1313 said:
^ Exactly, (definitely an argument to be made for buy once cry once as there is for all gear) also and I'm paraphrasing Steven Rinella talking optics: If we happen to meet at the trail head next season and you start complaining about your bag, but at the same time giving me shit about the cost of my Stone Glacier while standing next to your $40k '19 Tacoma I'm going to jump in my '06 corolla with disgust.
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Ha! That's great. Does that mean I can complain all I want with my 25 year old Gregory pack and my 16 year old truck??? Just kidding of course. He makes a good point.
 
wllm1313 said:
^ Exactly, (definitely an argument to be made for buy once cry once as there is for all gear) also and I'm paraphrasing Steven Rinella talking optics: If we happen to meet at the trail head next season and you start complaining about your bag, but at the same time giving me shit about the cost of my Stone Glacier while standing next to your $40k '19 Tacoma I'm going to jump in my '06 corolla with disgust.
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As you can probably guess, I really don't agree with the buy once cry once argument.

It assumes you somehow have perfect foresight from the beginning which gear is best for you. In my mind, in real life it takes time and experience to find out not only what works for you but stuff you place higher use or value on. Heck, even after someone has all the experience in the world they seem to change their mind every year. In that case, they will buy and cry many times.

Worst case, it could lead someone to take years off hunting saving up for the best gear. For the most part experience gained hunting should be worth more than gear. Unfortunately, the consumerist mentality gets to all of us and makes us think otherwise.

It sounds like you have logical reasons for wanting the better pack because you get good use out of it. My point being is there are good arguments behind other choices.
 
Red84 said:
Shaffe, I really like the comparison you gave as I was looking at those two of those three packs already.
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If you were looking at the Aether, look into the frame and hip belt and draw your own conclusions. It is definitely more modern than the baltoro/traverse. To me I didn't think that more modern was better for heavy weight purposes, but I'm no pack expert. Many say they are great when I looked up reviews.
 
I would make lots of small 1 night, 2 night trips in the time you have before your hunt. Every trip you take, you learn so much more about your current gear and your future gear needs/wants. Make friends with someone who has nicer gear/more experience than you if you can. There are some nice people who will let you borrow a stove, a sleeping bag, or a tent to try out for a few nights and help you narrow down what you will need for your real hunt.
 
I've got some experience backpacking, and backpack hunting.

My honest advice? Don't start with elk. Elk hunting is hard. They're nomadic, often boogie when shots are fired, and can be tough to relocate on public. Rifle success rates are often around 20%. Killing an elk is hard, and if you kill one it gets harder. Packing 180-230 lbs of meat plus antlers and skull is a chore. It's a big deal for a beginner.

I'd recommend a mule deer hunt. They're less nomadic, tend to be in the same areas for several days (whereas elk may be miles away), and if you kill a muley the packout logistics are much, much easier. Success rates may run 50%, so this type hunt may be more "fun" where an elk hunt may be more "adventure".

Second bit of advice - start backpacking now. Someone who has never backpacked going on an expensive western backpack hunt is crazy to me. You will learn so much by backpacking that will give you confidence, and most people find they really enjoy it.

Third bit of advice - pick your hunting buddies carefully. ESPECIALLY for a backpack elk hunt. If they have any complainer or quitter in them, DO NOT go on a backpack elk hunt with them. PERIOD. You want someone who is a go getter, enjoys suffering, and has physical abilities similar or better than yours.

On packs - if you go cheap, get a kelty cache hauler (which I think Alps now has under license?) and put one of our belts on it (Seek Outside). It makes a pretty darn good hauler. If you want a combo pack, look at our Unaweep. Not being salesy here, but I think it'd be a good fit.

Nathan
 
shaffe48 said:
As you can probably guess, I really don't agree with the buy once cry once argument.

It assumes you somehow have perfect foresight from the beginning which gear is best for you. In my mind, in real life it takes time and experience to find out not only what works for you but stuff you place higher use or value on. Heck, even after someone has all the experience in the world they seem to change their mind every year. In that case, they will buy and cry many times.

Worst case, it could lead someone to take years off hunting saving up for the best gear. For the most part experience gained hunting should be worth more than gear. Unfortunately, the consumerist mentality gets to all of us and makes us think otherwise.

It sounds like you have logical reasons for wanting the better pack because you get good use out of it. My point being is there are good arguments behind other choices.
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The people who change their mind every year are just people who are impulsive and attracted to shiny things. Most of the guys who have higher end packs/rifles/optics who buy new every year don't need to, they're doing it because they seen something shiny.

Also, its hard to apply the buy once mentality to some things like packs, because fit is so subjective. However, in theory once you find your fit and you buy a pack like MR/Kifaru/SG/SO etc, you shouldn't need to buy one again for a long time. Same goes with top tier optics, rifles, etc.

RockChucker30 said:
I've got some experience backpacking, and backpack hunting.

My honest advice? Don't start with elk. Elk hunting is hard. They're nomadic, often boogie when shots are fired, and can be tough to relocate on public. Rifle success rates are often around 20%. Killing an elk is hard, and if you kill one it gets harder. Packing 180-230 lbs of meat plus antlers and skull is a chore. It's a big deal for a beginner.

I'd recommend a mule deer hunt. They're less nomadic, tend to be in the same areas for several days (whereas elk may be miles away), and if you kill a muley the packout logistics are much, much easier. Success rates may run 50%, so this type hunt may be more "fun" where an elk hunt may be more "adventure".

Second bit of advice - start backpacking now. Someone who has never backpacked going on an expensive western backpack hunt is crazy to me. You will learn so much by backpacking that will give you confidence, and most people find they really enjoy it.
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Listen to this, especially the second bit.
 
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I’ve heard a lot of praise about the MR Metcalf but surely there has to be a downside, other than the price tag. I’ve been looking around for several months and I’m probably going to go with a Metcalf. I’ve used a couple of Kellys and liked the quality but the ones I had were not designed for meat hauling. Osprey looks flimsy to me, however, I’ve never used one.
 
Wrangler said:
I’ve heard a lot of praise about the MR Metcalf but surely there has to be a downside, other than the price tag. I’ve been looking around for several months and I’m probably going to go with a Metcalf. I’ve used a couple of Kellys and liked the quality but the ones I had were not designed for meat hauling. Osprey looks flimsy to me, however, I’ve never used one.
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Heavier than SG and Kifaru packs with greater volume.
 
Wrangler said:
I’ve heard a lot of praise about the MR Metcalf but surely there has to be a downside, other than the price tag. I’ve been looking around for several months and I’m probably going to go with a Metcalf. I’ve used a couple of Kellys and liked the quality but the ones I had were not designed for meat hauling. Osprey looks flimsy to me, however, I’ve never used one.
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I rock an Osprey, it is a little flimsy, but I've tried a Metcalf and I can't really tell the difference. Suckage is still suckage when putting a couple of elk quarters in it and hiking back to the truck.
 
neffa3 said:
I rock an Osprey, it is a little flimsy, but I've tried a Metcalf and I can't really tell the difference. Suckage is still suckage when putting a couple of elk quarters in it and hiking back to the truck.
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Which osprey? Current model atmos is designed for medium loads and comfort and seems a lot more flimsy than the aether. The Gregory baltoro or the rei traverse are two more examples of backpacking packs designed to be less flimsy.
 
^I have used a sitka pack, northface, and an arc'teryx... if you are just packing an elk quarter 3 miles back to the truck it doesn't really matter and in reality you are probably better off buying a meat packing frame from cabelas for $50. Where a SG/Kifaru/ MR really destroys an Osprey is on multi-day backpacking hunts, where you are carrying all your gear plus meat and/or where you are carrying a lot of weight for a really long time. You can tough out 65lbs in an osprey for 3-4 miles 90min of hiking one way...but 85-100lbs for a day or two just sucks.

Not to mention a high end pack is going to hold up a lot better over time. Like any piece of gear it's how you are doing the activity and how often. If you are doing 1 backpack hunt every couple of years and mostly car camping then it's definitely not necessary. If you are doing 4+ back pack hunts a year and plan on doing that for the foreseeable future... yeah spend the money.
 
The one I have is old and honestly I think it's a women's, I picked it up for a couple bucks at a garage sale and spray painted it. Probably similar to the Aura 65? I've also used a Kelty 6500 (or something like that), it's at least 15 years old and works pretty good for the packout, but sucks as a day pack. I would agree with wllm1313 that for legit backpack hunting I would want a pack I could separate from the frame to wedge meat into, otherwise it just adds trips.
 
neffa3 said:
The one I have is old and honestly I think it's a women's, I picked it up for a couple bucks at a garage sale and spray painted it. Probably similar to the Aura 65? I've also used a Kelty 6500 (or something like that), it's at least 15 years old and works pretty good for the packout, but sucks as a day pack. I would agree with wllm1313 that for legit backpack hunting I would want a pack I could separate from the frame to wedge meat into, otherwise it just adds trips.
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For meat packing maybe. But people use backpacking packs to hike the entire Appalachian trail over the course of months. Backpacking packs are specifically designed for extended trips. Further my pack for up to 9 days was still under 60 lbs and I was way overpacked.
 
shaffe48 said:
For meat packing maybe. But people use backpacking packs to hike the entire Appalachian trail over the course of months. Backpacking packs are specifically designed for extended trips. Further my pack for up to 9 days was still under 60 lbs and I was way overpacked.
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^ and if you intention is to not pack meat than you aren't hunting your backpacking and then yeah you don't need a hunting pack.

"My pack for up to 9 days was still under 60 lbs and I was way over-packed"... Yes the issue is not if an Osprey is a great backing bag... it is... the issues is what you do when you have an elk, 250lbs of boned out meat + antlers to move, by yourself 7 miles...
 
I have backpack hunted dozens of times with my two packs... I've also never shot anything on one of those hunts, so yeah not an issue. Reg backpacking packs work great for a guy like me!
 
wllm1313 said:
^ and if you intention is to not pack meat than you aren't hunting your backpacking and then yeah you don't need a hunting pack.

"My pack for up to 9 days was still under 60 lbs and I was way over-packed"... Yes the issue is not if an Osprey is a great backing bag... it is... the issues is what you do when you have an elk, 250lbs of boned out meat + antlers to move, by yourself 7 miles...
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Wllm my issue with your previous post was that you said that kifaru destroys osprey on multiday hunts. My point is that the number of days does not matter. Yeah, hunters carry more gear than backpackers, but nothing that a backpack designed for it can't handle.

I don't disagree that the better pack may be more convenient for meat hauling. However, even for a hunter this advantage must be kept in perspective. As you said, it's more important for an elk hunter, that is routinely successful, and hunts a long way off the road, and has the money, and is probably going to stick with it year after year. Any of these five criteria may not apply to a hunter or even the op.
 
shaffe48 said:
Wllm my issue with your previous post was that you said that kifaru destroys osprey on multiday hunts. My point is that the number of days does not matter. Yeah, hunters carry more gear than backpackers, but nothing that a backpack designed for it can't handle.

I don't disagree that the better pack may be more convenient for meat hauling. However, even for a hunter this advantage must be kept in perspective. As you said, it's more important for an elk hunter, that is routinely successful, and hunts a long way off the road, and has the money, and is probably going to stick with it year after year. Any of these five criteria may not apply to a hunter or even the op.
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Yeah hunts not backpacking trips, backpacker don't carry around huge quantities of meat... you don't have to kill something to have it be a hunt, but if you are hunting then IMHO you are ethically obligated to consider how you will get your meat home and avoid spoilage. My pack is 15lbs + heavier when I'm scouting or back packing with my wife because I know that half way through the trip I'm not going to suddenly have an extra 100lbs to get back to the car.

Honestly I carry way less gear than most backpackers, aside from the fee ultralight guys, check out SnowyMountaineer he has his gear dialed and has a couple of threads that are great examples for this style of hunting. (https://onyourownadventures.com/hun...ear-List-Sept-2018&highlight=snowymountaineer)

Yep high end specialized gear is critical only for a small subset of hunters, it's just helpful for most. Honestly use your bag if you want, I didn't see the need either until I started being successful in the backcountry, and if you don't get a bag with a meatshelf just remember meat comes out first then the horns and your camp.
 
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