Montana Regs Too Complicated?

So I was at my CAC meeting last night and we spent 30 mins discussing how MTFWP has a committee to simplify regs. There were many ideas and obviusly a lot had been put into this. So I asked our Warden capitan how many citations come from legitimate misunderstanding of the regs, he replied maybe 10%. I also just got done teaching hunter ed this past weekend and a dozen 12 year olds and one 38yo were able to tell me if I could shoot a mule deer buck in 218 on Sept 15 in 10 minutes of review.

So is this really an issue? If so, any thoughts on what qould make it easiwr for you to understand?

I think its a natural tendency of government agencies to make regulations more and more complex. I think it's a good thing to go back occasionally and ask, "Is this really necessary anymore? Can we put this in simpler terms?" I wish the committee good luck on this one.

I don’t find them hard to decipher, but I’ve been reading them my whole life.

However, other states’ regs usually confuse the hell out of me for a while. I think it’s just a matter of getting used to reading them.

I believe we are more complicated than most.

I think this isn't limited to Montana, and occurs in multiple places. Maybe I'm biased but I think Louisiana has the most confusing regs of states I've looked into, which is less states than many of yall here so take that for what it's worth. But I'll provide this example.....

Recently I was following facebook comments of two guys I know going back and forth about nutria seasons on WMAs which as a result would also open the opportunity for early pig hunting as pigs may be killed by weapons allowed for whatever season is open at the time. Many of us take advantage of "small game hunting" and really go hunt pigs with a rimfire or shotgun with allowable size shot.
One believed nutria would have their own season on WMAs; the other believed the nutria recreational season would only apply to 4 "exception" WMAs. Part of that exception though is having a longer recreational season which is extended into March. So is the exception only the extended recreational season or is it that the nutria season is only applied to those WMAs and excludes all other WMAs? In looking at WMA specific regs none of them have any mention of nutria including those highlighted in the exception. In looking at some of the federal properties nutria can be found listed within small game season, taken incidental to whatever season is in progress, or same as state regs. In the discussion game wardens were contacted and their interruption was that the nutria season only applied to those WMAs listed.



Yet reading the regs for bobcats it says that the season doesn't apply to federal properties or WMAs. Beautifully written. This should be said the same for nutria if it is the same. It would save a lot of confusion, and possibly a person being cited from a legitimate misunderstanding.



I'll admit that some people get excited and don't fully read and understand the regs at times. Myself included, I often have to reread and go back and forth in different sections to fully understand what is or isn't allowed. But I think the states (Louisiana, Montana, etc.) could do a better job of dummy proofing by writing it clearly and staying consistent. Bobcat is a great example. Nutria is a poor example where in my opinion the line is draw at the interruption of the state instead of wording published in the reg book.

At first glance coming from another state, slightly confusing.. pretty simple once you get the format. Other states are worse. 10% if accurate is a pretty low #. In some states regulation equals revenue collection , in those places confusion is the intent. I don’t get that Sense in Montana.

belly-deep said:

I don’t find them hard to decipher, but I’ve been reading them my whole life.

However, other states’ regs usually confuse the hell out of me for a while. I think it’s just a matter of getting used to reading them.

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I agree with this statement. Maybe a flow chart will help some folks . If yes, go here ... if no, go here.

The problem is some people glance at the reg's instead of actually reading them. Sometimes it may take several readings of a section to really understand them. Some guys won't give it the effort needed and then complain if they get cited. Seems to me it's a self inflicted problem.

But that's just my opinion lol

Dan

Dan O said:

The problem is some people glance at the reg's instead of actually reading them. Sometimes it may take several readings of a section to really understand them. Some guys won't give it the effort needed and then complain if they get cited. Seems to me it's a self inflicted problem.

But that's just my opinion lol

Dan

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Yep.

But we live in a nation that manages for the lowest common denominator.

Ben Lamb said:

lowest common denominator.

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This was said many times in different contexts. Essentially what this will equate to is lost opportunities.

Some guys don’t understand them on purpose.

Id like to see the hunter orange and proof of sex rules go away. I dont really have a problem with anything else.

There are a couple of rules that should be spelled out specifically, ie archery hunters must wear blaze orange in spring bear season and how state lands in BMAs should be treated/accessed, but generally speaking I think Montana's regs are pretty clear or at least on par with CO, ID, and WY.

In my opinion Alaska has the hardest regs to understand, specifically because of the numerous types of hunts, different tag requirements for residents versus non-residents, and dramatically different salvage requirements depending on the unit.

BWALKER77 said:

Id like to see the hunter orange and proof of sex rules go away. I dont really have a problem with anything else.

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I would at least like to see them standardized across the west. I now just always wear a solid vest and a hat wherever I hunt with something that goes boom so I don't screw it up on accident.

I would say they are the most complicated of all the western states, but like everything else if you invest the time they are not impossible to unravel.

Yup, too complicated. Everyone hunt Colorado or Wyoming instead.

I've been trying to figure them out recently since I might have an opportunity to there with a friend next year. I haven't spent a lot of time on them yet but it did seem a little difficult to figure out whether I can buy OTC buck/bull tags or if they are draw only. Also whether "B" tags are doe/cow only; maybe it all depends on the unit? I have lots of time to learn fortunately.

Sometimes you can buy a deer/elk combo OTC, but I wouldn't count on it. It depends on how many people apply. The last couple of years they have sold out. Apply for your dream unit, and if you don't get it you can still hunt most of the state on the general license. You just have to be very, very aware of which unit you are in and what the general license allows in that unit. The license stays the same, but the rules change depending on where you are. Some places you can take either sex elk on a general, others are brow tined bull only, or antlerless only, or spike only. Some units are permit only for elk. You can shoot a whitetail buck in every unit of the state except one or two on a general license. Muley buck units are a bit harder to find, but they are around. A few units are either sex mule deer or either sex whitetail. One thing to be aware of, if you draw a mule deer buck permit, you can't hunt antlered mule deer in any other unit, even if it's allowed on the general tag. That's why I don't even apply for deer permits.

B tags are antlerless only, some are available OTC, some are unlimited but you have to apply for them, and some are draw only. Oh, and some units have three or four different B tags available. A B tag allows you to kill an additional animal, a permit does not.

Ive got another reg i cant get answered straight. There is a piece of state ground over here that goes to block management during hunting season. Wtf? We pay taxes and a rancher? Mabe you folks can explain it to me. Thanks.

Cubguy said:

Ive got another reg i cant get answered straight. There is a piece of state ground over here that goes to block management during hunting season. Wtf? We pay taxes and a rancher? Mabe you folks can explain it to me. Thanks.

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Its state trust land, ie owned by the state to be held in trust to make money for schools in the state. The rancher pays for grazing rights to that land and therefore has minor control of the surface with regard to hunting. This doesn’t matter at all for type 1 and for type 2 you just need to ask permission... I have never been turned away from a Type 2. Makes sense if the land owner is administering that piece of land that he/ she would be able to make sure people talk to them to make sure you weren’t hunting amongst their livestock....

In CO state land isn’t public... so could be worse, you just have to make a phone call