gun or scope

Don Fischer said:

Ha! In the very early 70's I was in the Service in Germany and before coming home bought a 308 bolt rifle. Put a straight 4x Redfield on it and set the screw's in the base with red loctite! Got transfered to Lakeside, Mont, near Kalispell. Decided to change the base's for what reason I don't know, they were Redfield one piece! Got to meet a very well known gunsmith through that deal, Harvy Beaumiller. He was older then and had two of the laziest Chessy's in the yard I ever saw. Took me in his shop and started working on it and ruined a couple screwdriver's pretty quick. Then he got one and reground it and got the base off. He's the guy that told me about blue loctite! Hell of a nice guy!

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I always looked to replace the Allen head screws with slotted screws when mounting bases and never used Loctite since I usually thought that I'd eventually take the bases off. One can heat the area with a torch if necessary. Some folks use a fingernail repair item called hard as nails. My last bases were mounted using the Leupold torx screws. Allen head screws for the rings are fine.

I’m pretty anal when it comes to my optics. I use torx screws on everything, they are not prone to camming out and with that torque down consistently. I also clean out the screw holes with iso alcohol and use a dab of blue thread locker. I try to use a dual dovetail base when possible to eliminate any other possible movement area.
Now assuming you have a solid optics mounting, you can do what is a box drill for tracking your scopes erector tube and it’s returnability to zero. Basically you shoot at the center of your target and that is your zero. (All shots are POA at original zero.)You then adjust your turrets (elevation)up 8clicks (windage)left 8 clicks, Fire one shot. Move windage turret right 16 clicks, fire one shot. Move your turrets (elevation) down 16 clicks, Fire one shot. Move turrets (windage) left 16 clicks, Fire one shot. Then move the turrets (elevation) up 8 clicks and (windage) right 8 clicks, Fire one shot. You should have two holes in the center with four holes forming roughly a 4” box at 100 yards. If this is your product, your scope is fine and tracking fine.

I am unsure of the scope mounts, but it certainly will not hurt breaking down the scope and remounting. Currently, my shots are 4-5 inch groups. Have been shooting core-lokt 150 gr.

Several of you have suggested to not use a sled, please explain why. I've considered buying one. What specifically would you recommend for a firm rest for sighting in?

I have a lead sled and do use it still somewhat for ruff zeroing a hard kicking rifle .
The issue for me is not only does the rifle move around in the sled, but it seems to react differently during recoil at each shot, ever so slightly. Just enough to cause point of impact changes of various amounts.
But the bigger thing to consider is the difference between the guns reaction at recoil in the sled, verses against the human body.
This has led me to use a good sand bag set up for testing groups and for fine tuning the zero on a rifle. I also like to rest the forestock in my hand for final zero. This mimicks the real world way a shot is most likely taken in the field. The body rolls back with recoil and the tightness of the grip, and the rigidness of the shooters arms effect point of impact, because of the amount of muzzle rise it allows or prohibits, etc...
Holding the rifle consistently is the key to accuracy. Wich does make a person think the sled can do a better job. For some people that may be true. But unless you strap down your rifle like it's a ferocious ,dangerous ,animal so there is almost no movement, it just can't seem to keep all things in alignment on every shot.
Even if it does, it won't have the same result as a shot made by a human holding the gun with and against his or her body.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply and for steering me away from the led sled. I'm now looking at the Gorilla shooting bag, and the Caldwell shooting bag.

Back before i taped the end of my barrel, snow somehow must have gotten jammed up the tube right before i shot at a buck. I missed the buck, couldn't believe it so missed him again. Then again and again and he was only 150 yards with a dead nuts can't hardly miss shot. This was in the northern part of the Ruby's. Once that big muley cleared the little ridge, i chased him over into the next big canyon only to miss him until i had no more shells. Never seen a shot where i was hitting, that big ol boy lived.

Long story but that's when i started trying to figure why my gun would no longer shoot fer crap. I changed scopes and mounts with new, had the barrel re-crowned, inspected the wood stock for potential bedding problems, had it to different reputable gunsmiths for months at a time, never could figure how a long dependable rifle shot great for years up to that hunt but might dead center a paper plate at 50 yards one shot and miss the next two, after that big muley getting away.

It was years later when i was finally set to travel to have a new barrel installed, a 6.5 X 06 IMP as i recall, when a friend suggested as a last resort to let a local gun guy he knew give it the once over, i did, and one of the first things he did was run a thick patch down the tube. He got interested right away and showed me how the pressure to push the patch, got really easy about 2 1/2" from the crown then got tight again with the rifling just before exiting the barrel. There was no noticeable bulge on the outside but there was inside the tube. My bullets would twist right along until they hit the bulged or damaged part, free fall, and then hit the rifling again just before flinging out the nicely crowned new muzzle, to who knew which direction.

The chances of this being the OP's problem is doubtful but it shows that sometimes, accuracy problems can be not where a guy might figure to look.

To me it sounds like a scope issue. I have had the same rifle you are talking about and it was a good shooter. I had a similar incident you are describing on another rifle, and it was the scope. Changed it out and never another issue. Let us know if you get the issue resolved.

archerfish said:

I am unsure of the scope mounts, but it certainly will not hurt breaking down the scope and remounting. Currently, my shots are 4-5 inch groups. Have been shooting core-lokt 150 gr.

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Try different ammo as well, the rifle just may not like that ammo.

You said it’s a Leupold scope right? Get ahold of Leupold and tell them you think your scope might be an issue, I’m sure their gold ring warranty will cover a check-up.

Update, this summer, have changed out the scope with a know scope from my BIL, and am getting similar results as with my old setup. Is it safe to assume that the barrel is the culprit? or could it be something else. Wondering if its worth the investment for parts and smithing on this cheaper rifle, or look a new/used rifle. As always, great community here on HT, and thanks in advance.