View Poll Results: Is long range (500 yrds +) hunting ethical?

Voters
145. This poll is closed
  • Yes

    55 37.93%
  • No

    90 62.07%
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Results 51 to 75 of 141
  1. #51

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    I happened to have this conversation with a local game warden and a sheriff's deputy just prior to last hunting season. We were pretty much all on the same page that the average sportsman really has no business shooting at game beyond 300 yards. I have BDCs and always practice out to 500 yards, but in more than 25 years of hunting Montana I doubt I've taken more than 6 or 8 shots beyond 300 yards. Longest was around 400 on an antelope and about 350 once on a mulie; all my other "long" shots past 300 were probably within 325. Especially if you're willing to get down and crawl, you can almost always close the range on an animal some. I've read it in a couple of different places and think it's a good rule of thumb to restrict yourself to the range at which you can put 3 out of 3 shots into a paper plate from field shooting positions.

    On the other hand, if you're a retired USMC sniper with a .338 Lapua Magnum mounting a Nightforce scope that cost more than my first three cars combined, have at 'er.

    But for the one-box-of-shells-per-year Average Joe, no.
    "The most terrifying sound in nature is not the roar of a charging lion nor the whistle of a descending bomb; rather it is a click when you expected a bang"- Peter Hathaway Capstick

  2. #52
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    How about Texas millennials who shoot long range crossbows and creedmore 6.5's?
    ... with hair put up in man buns.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cav1 View Post
    I happened to have this conversation with a local game warden and a sheriff's deputy just prior to last hunting season. We were pretty much all on the same page that the average sportsman really has no business shooting at game beyond 300 yards.
    You know, there are a lot of Lake Wobegons where everybody is above average.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Arrow View Post
    ... with hair put up in man buns.
    Who carry hot.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieHunter View Post
    Who carry hot.
    And don't wear a stitch of blaze orange... or hearing protection...

  6. #56

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    ...mossy oak puff bottle & lens cloth.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by std7mag View Post
    To answer Greenhorn's question, NO!!
    But you can relax as most of those seem to reside in PA.

    To answer the poll. I think Rzrbck summed it up nicely. There are those that are competent, and would be ethical for them.
    Central Pa I'd have to agree with that.
    I know the voices in my head aren't real, but sometimes they have some good idea's.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tradewind View Post
    It's a great way to start a pissing match where none was needed to start.
    Yep. But the pissing will continue. mtmuley

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenhorn View Post
    Is buying a hunting license with a IQ of 75 or less ethical?
    Not and issue, the folks from Kentucky cant find their way west. they keep getting stuck at the Mississippi.
    "Only be strong and very courageous"
    Joshua 1:7

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by noharleyyet View Post
    It all started when man first gandered thru shaped glass. The rest is embellished efficacy and equivocated advantage.
    yeah, better known as marksmanship

  11. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mallardsx2 View Post
    I would be willing to be my paycheck that 90% of the people on this forum could not hit a pie plate at 400 yards under a normal hunting situation.

    I will double down on that and say that 60% of the people on this forum could not hit a pie plate while rested on a bench with sandbags at 400 yards 2 out of 4 shots.

    These numbers may in fact be low. I'm conservative and giving a handful of people on here the benefit of the doubt.

    People think just because they have a cds dial means they can shoot an animal at almost any distance.

    They can shoot at a mile if thats what they would like to do. But I dont think they should be shooting at an animal that far.

    That is all I am going to say on this topic.
    I think you would lose your paycheck...repeatedly

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtmuley View Post
    Yep. But the pissing will continue. mtmuley
    no doubt. and all that goes with it.

    On the bright side it gives Harley a chance to dig into his meme collection.
    Last edited by Tradewind; 08-09-2018 at 10:35 PM.

  13. Default

    "FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals."

    The underlined portion is what this debate should be about. Is shooting at these long distances giving the animal's natural instinct a fair chance at detecting and avoiding you, the hunter? Probably not. I am not saying everyone should pick up a trad bow and really get primitive but let's be serious, 500+ yard shots are ridiculous. Everyone has a different set of ethics, I will never in my life shoot 500 yards outside of a gun range. I'm not about set some other arbitrary number that should be the max distance a hunter is suppose to shoot from. Rather, I think the above definition from B&C should he read and about by every hunter. Then ask themselves whether or not long range shooting during hunting season is ethical.
    Last edited by Nv_archer; 08-09-2018 at 11:10 PM.

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nv_archer View Post
    "FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals."

    The underlined portion is what this debate should be about. Is shooting at these long distances giving the animal's natural instinct a fair chance at detecting and avoiding you, the hunter? Probably not. I am not saying everyone should pick up a trad bow and really get primitive but let's be serious, 500+ yard shots are ridiculous. Everyone has a different set of ethics, I will never in my life shoot 500 yards outside of a gun range. I'm not about set some other arbitrary number that should be the max distance a hunter is suppose to shoot from. Rather, I think the above definition from B&C should he read and about by every hunter. Then ask themselves whether or not long range shooting during hunting season is ethical.
    Thanks for adding this perspective. I was following this thread with a focus on clean ethical kill probabilities as they are affected by distance, but this adds a whole other perspective for me. Not sure I entirely agree with the view, but very good food for thought as I continue to learn about western hunting.
    "Freedom is NOT Free"

  15. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tradewind View Post
    no doubt. and all that goes with it.

    On the bright side it gives Harley a chance to dig into his meme collection.
    I shot the long and the....long won.

  16. #66

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    For me just because I can hit steal at longer ranges doesn't mean that its right to shoot at an animal at longer ranges. It is unfair to the animal plus there is also no need my longest shot on an animal is 100yds. The longer the shot the more things that can go wrong, a bad shot wounding the animal, also the probability of never finding the animal goes up.

  17. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VikingsGuy View Post
    Thanks for adding this perspective. I was following this thread with a focus on clean ethical kill probabilities as they are affected by distance, but this adds a whole other perspective for me. Not sure I entirely agree with the view, but very good food for thought as I continue to learn about western hunting.
    VikingsGuy, I am glad it was provided some insight. Almost every debate about harvesting animals at long distances seems to over look what is fair chase, to some degree or another. I am all about putting food on the table, but I believe a critter that lives 365 days per year in the wild , surviving predation, and starvation in the winter deserves a little more than a hunter killing it from longer ranges. To me that is an unfair advantage.

  18. #68
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    Bixby Oklahoma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nv_archer View Post
    "FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals."

    The underlined portion is what this debate should be about. Is shooting at these long distances giving the animal's natural instinct a fair chance at detecting and avoiding you, the hunter? Probably not. I am not saying everyone should pick up a trad bow and really get primitive but let's be serious, 500+ yard shots are ridiculous. Everyone has a different set of ethics, I will never in my life shoot 500 yards outside of a gun range. I'm not about set some other arbitrary number that should be the max distance a hunter is suppose to shoot from. Rather, I think the above definition from B&C should he read and about by every hunter. Then ask themselves whether or not long range shooting during hunting season is ethical.
    Definitely deserves some consideration. But I think that is a difficult standard to define. All ethics derive from a defined value system. Ground blinds, ozone generators, camouflage, and the list goes on are all attempts to give the hunter an advantage over such animals. None of those things bother me but I'm sure there are differences in opinion about which of those things are improper. Reasons for hunting certainly impact our ethics in the field. I, as a recreational hunter who enjoys the challenge and thrill of the chase, certainly have different ethics about sportsmanship and hunting than someone who is a subsistence hunter attempting to feed themselves and their families.

    Most people draw ethical lines at their feet. If they do it, its okay. If beyond their practice, it's not.

  19. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nv_archer View Post
    let's be serious, 500+ yard shots are ridiculous.
    So 499 is okay then? Or is it 299, taking it back to "reasonably ethical"..
    For your bow is 10 yards ethical, when you're shooting a cat out of a tree with 4 baying hounds you've never fed waiting at the bottom for the cat to fall out? What about a bear with it's head in a bucket of donuts, from somebody else's treestand? Is it okay to take a close shot at a (insert animal type here), after you've paid an outfitter a few thousand to show up, tag along with him and his guide, and when the time is right you shoot something - knowing f-all about where you're at and how to hunt it?

    Thanks for the definition of ethics by B&C, it's a good one. And 499 yards is okay right?

  20. #70

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    The poll question is impossible to answer for an open minded person. It depends on too many factors. What is ethical under 1 set of conditions, may be far from it an hour later under another set of conditions.
    What is a slam dunk for one person may be an impossible shot for the next person. Neither of these people should define ethical for the other. Ethics are personal, and you can't draw a line at some distance and define one side of the line as ethical and the other side as unethical. Some of the worst shots on game, regardless of range that I have seen were because the shooter got excited. Is it ethical to get excited?

    I have seen hunters fail to follow up a shot at fairly close range and others search for days at a longer range. Is one of these hunters more ethical because he swears off longer shots? Ethics really are just a sense of responsibility, some have it, some don't.

    I think B&Cs' definition of fair chase is a good guideline.
    Last edited by MTTW; 08-10-2018 at 09:23 AM. Reason: Punctuation

  21. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTTW View Post
    The poll question is impossible to answer for an open minded person. It depends on too many factors. What is ethical under 1 set of conditions, may be far from it an hour later under another set of conditions.
    What is a slam dunk for one person may be an impossible shot for the next person. Neither of these people should define ethical for the other. Ethics are personal, and you can't draw a line at some distance and define one side of the line as ethical and the other side as unethical. Some of the worst shots on game, regardless of range that I have seen were because the shooter got excited. Is it ethical to get excited?

    I have seen hunters fail to follow up a shot at fairly close range and others search for days at a longer range. Is one of these hunters more ethical because he swears off longer shots. Ethics really are just a sense of responsibility, some have it, some don't.

    I think B&Cs' definition of fair chase is a good guideline.
    ^^^^^Boom!

  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nv_archer View Post
    but let's be serious, 500+ yard shots are ridiculous.
    How about shooting 499 but the hunter was carrying a round in the chamber before the shot and left his truck parked along the interstate in WY. ?
    Last edited by tjones; 08-10-2018 at 09:10 AM.
    “In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.”

    ― Benjamin Franklin

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nv_archer View Post
    VikingsGuy, I am glad it was provided some insight. Almost every debate about harvesting animals at long distances seems to over look what is fair chase, to some degree or another. I am all about putting food on the table, but I believe a critter that lives 365 days per year in the wild , surviving predation, and starvation in the winter deserves a little more than a hunter killing it from longer ranges. To me that is an unfair advantage.
    But modern optics, clothing, and other hunting gear don’t give you an unfair advantage?

  24. Default

    Fair Chase died a long time ago, if you apply it to long range hunting you have to apply it to all hunting scenarios.

  25. #75
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    Sep 2014
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    NE Montana...also known as "Little Siberia".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callen View Post
    For me just because I can hit steal at longer ranges doesn't mean that its right to shoot at an animal at longer ranges. It is unfair to the animal plus there is also no need my longest shot on an animal is 100yds. The longer the shot the more things that can go wrong, a bad shot wounding the animal, also the probability of never finding the animal goes up.
    100 yards? It must rule to be you....

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