1-yr old with bonus points (MT)

dcreiss said:

I think this is about the only way to give kids a fair shake at obtaining a license in the future with rampant point creep playing out in many states. I just called SDGFP to check and see if this is a possibility as they made a move to cube preference points in a tiered draw system which completely marginalizes entering hunters in high demand draws. I may have to petition the South Dakota GFP Commission to consider a move like this if it is not currently available, my 3 kids deserve at least a decent chance to hunt elk in-state before they are 40.

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We don't have point creep in MT, because we have bonus points rather than preference points. People draw great tags with zero points every year. I hate the fact that you can buy points for kids that you don't even know will want to be a hunter when they are of age. For example: A guy decides to start buying his kid bonus points as soon as the kid is 1. The kid turns 12 and doesn't really show any interest in hunting, but the dad has invested all that money into buying points so by god the kid is going to hunt. He decides to put his kid in for a Breaks sheep permit and maybe that kid draws the tag. He doesn't really care to hunt, but he is the one with the tag instead of the person that has been dreaming of having that tag for 40 years.

Don't even get me started on the fact that you can draw a big three tag and then be allowed to buy points during your 7 year waiting period....

bigsky2 said:

Don't even get me started on the fact that you can draw a big three tag and then be allowed to buy points during your 7 year waiting period....

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It's all about the $$$

But I do agree with everything you said. I hate that I "have to" buy points for my kids, especially not even knowing if either of them will want to hunt, although I expect they will.

We may not have true point creep, but the system is, in my opinion, totally flawed. The squared system makes it even worse as it gives those on the top end slightly better odds and those on the bottom end drastically worse odds.

A few years back I made an excel spreadsheet that could calculate exact odds for each unit by plugging in the number of tags available and the number of people who will apply at each point level The spreadsheet system assumes that everyone who applied last year will apply again this year with 1 additional point and removes those who drew last year from the formula. There are also a group of people who do not buy points and it accounts for those as well. Obviously, not everyone who applied last year will apply again for the same unit, but it's as close an estimate as can be made. Anyway, I have the formulas set to spit out odds for both straight point and squared point systems.

The last time I ran the numbers, 16 points were max possible, so the following is based on that for one of the breaks units:
For max point holders, odds went from 0.98% under a straight point system to 2.05% under the squared system.
For single point holders, the odds went from 0.12% under straight point system to 0.02% under the squared system.
For those holding 8 points the odds are identical either way.
everyone above 8 sees slightly better odds while those below 8 see worse odds under squared system.

So...using the squared points doubled the odds for top point holders but cut the odds for single point holders by 1/6.

What I would like to see happen, is to go back to a straight bonus point system (no squaring) and set aside a portion of the draw, say 25%, where everyone gets a single entry...no points. At least then, those who have been playing the point game for almost 20 years, still have a better chance, but those with low points still have a shot. I'd also like to see the big 3 go to once-in-a-lifetime. I've drawn moose and goat, I have plenty of years left to hunt and would love to hunt them again, but I'd be good with once-in-a-lifetime even if it was retroactive. But hey, why would fish and game do that?? less applicants = less money

whiskeydog - pretty sure it will be a thanked investment. I would bet it’s in her blood.

Good one kurt! The wife still won’t pick up a rifle and tag along though...