Loading Data; Starting Loads?

antelopedundee · Jul 28, 2018

In your experience if one was looking to load a cartridge for the first time, what is the likelihood that one will have success [success being measured by group size] by using the lowest starting loads? How common or uncommon is it for the lowest listed load to end up being the load of choice?

VikingsGuy · Jul 28, 2018

I am still learning, but from all I have read and my own (limited) experience, there are 2-4 "velocity nodes" throughout the lowest and highest safe charge range. I have found (and read) that the upper two are either better than their lower counterparts or just as good but faster so most folks will take the highest or second highest node. As such it seems that unless you are really paranoid about overcharge, or totally velocity agnostic, it seems that messing in lower half of book charges is a bit a waste of time/powder.

Adapting to this, rather than starting at the lowest charge and making 10-13 loads spaced 0.5grain apart, I make 10 loads in 0.3grain increments ending at the max book charge. I also note the max book velocity at max charge. When I shoot I start with my lower charge (typically near the mid-point of the book range). I check every case (and bolt lift) for pressure and I check the chrono velocity as i go up. If I see pressure signs or hit max velocity I stop. From there the data usually shows one or two "flat" spots were 2 or 3 charges don't change velocity much. I pick one of those "nodes" and work up 5 loads, in 0.1grain increments having 2 below and 2 above the selected node.

I am sure there a better ways used by better loaders, but it seems to be working for me.

antelopedundee · Jul 28, 2018

VikingsGuy said:
I am still learning, but from all I have read and my own (limited) experience, there are 2-4 "velocity nodes" throughout the lowest and highest safe charge range. I have found (and read) that the upper two are either better than their lower counterparts or just as good but faster so most folks will take the highest or second highest node. As such it seems that unless you are really paranoid about overcharge, or totally velocity agnostic, it seems that messing in lower half of book charges is a bit a waste of time/powder.

Adapting to this, rather than starting at the lowest charge and making 10-13 loads spaced 0.5grain apart, I make 10 loads in 0.3grain increments ending at the max book charge. I also note the max book velocity at max charge. When I shoot I start with my lower charge (typically near the mid-point of the book range). I check every case (and bolt lift) for pressure and I check the chrono velocity as i go up. If I see pressure signs or hit max velocity I stop. From there the data usually shows one or two "flat" spots were 2 or 3 charges don't change velocity much. I pick one of those "nodes" and work up 5 loads, in 0.1grain increments having 2 below and 2 above the selected node.

I am sure there a better ways used by better loaders, but it seems to be working for me.

How many rounds do you load for each charge? 1? 2? 3?

Does a 10th of a grain really make much difference?

belly-deep · Jul 28, 2018

I’d say about 50% of the time starting loads group well.

They are never “the load of choice” though, because they are usually 200 FPS or so below what the cartridge can deliver.

Bigjay73 · Jul 28, 2018

antelopedundee said:
How many rounds do you load for each charge? 1? 2? 3?

Does a 10th of a grain really make much difference?

Minimum of 5 rds. I like loading 10
No, a tenth of a grain makes no difference for general hunting/ target rounds.

Bigjay73 · Jul 28, 2018

I can't say that I've ever had a lowest charge load be my go to. I'm not a speed nut, but for hunting rounds, I try to find something in the upper velocity range for energy and bullet drop.

VikingsGuy · Jul 28, 2018

antelopedundee said:
How many rounds do you load for each charge? 1? 2? 3?

Does a 10th of a grain really make much difference?

I do 3x per load at all 3 rounds (the 0.3 increments; the focused 0.1 increments; +/- jump by 0.010 testing) as I am still confirming my loading skills, the folks who do this a lot will do 1x for the 1st round and then either 3x or 5x for the 2nd and 3rd.

As for 0.1 increments. The goal of the velocity approach is to find a sweet spot the is low variance within a range thereby increasing tolerance for loading imperfection, shooting temp, etc. As such, I do find within the 5 loads across 0.1 I do find somethings a specific load that was better then the two 0.3 increment loads on either side.
Not on POI, but on ES and SD.

N2TRKYS · Jul 28, 2018

I'm only interested in the fastest accurate load. I start about a grain off of the listed book max. I load 3 rounds per charge and increase by 1/2 a grain. This has worked very well with no issues so for with several different rifles and cartridges.

mtnkid85 · Jul 28, 2018

The best part of reloading is being able to create a load that satisfies multiple goals for the shooter.
I approach it by first looking in the book for which powders A. are noted for accuracy and B. create the fastest speed for my chosen bullet.
With that approach If I can't get a powder to work in the upper speed zone then Im going to move on and try another powder.
Now with all that said, the reason you start low and work up is for safety. I always load a couple rounds from the starting load working up into the range that I am actually interested in.

Bigjay73 · Jul 28, 2018

mtnkid85 said:
The best part of reloading is being able to create a load that satisfies multiple goals for the shooter.
I approach it by first looking in the book for which powders A. are noted for accuracy and B. create the fastest speed for my chosen bullet.
With that approach If I can't get a powder to work in the upper speed zone then Im going to move on and try another powder.
Now with all that said, the reason you start low and work up is for safety. I always load a couple rounds from the starting load working up into the range that I am actually interested in.

I agree with all of this. I will add that for me, I adjust loads depending on what caliber I'm loading for. For a larger load like 30-06, I'll try .5 gr increments, for say a .223 Rem, I'd go .3 gr increments. Going by .1 in my experience is a waste of time and money, it's never shown me any difference in POI or es/so, especially if you're loading for anything over 40grs. And if you're loading close to the lands, I have a few loads where a medium load gives maximum book velocity, so starting at minimum is always a good safe bet.

belly-deep · Jul 28, 2018

N2TRKYS said:
I'm only interested in the fastest accurate load. I start about a grain off of the listed book max. I load 3 rounds per charge and increase by 1/2 a grain. This has worked very well with no issues so for with several different rifles and cartridges.

I don’t think I’d start a grain off max as regular practice. I’ve run into a few loads that hit pressure right out of the gate for some odd reason.

VikingsGuy · Jul 28, 2018

belly-deep said:
I don’t think I’d start a grain off max as regular practice. I’ve run into a few loads that hit pressure right out of the gate for some odd reason.

+1. Working up load for new Winchester 1885 .270 this week and serious pressure signs 1.5 grain below published max. Not sure why, but glad I started 2.5 grains below.

N2TRKYS · Jul 28, 2018

belly-deep said:
I don’t think I’d start a grain off max as regular practice. I’ve run into a few loads that hit pressure right out of the gate for some odd reason.

I use to start lower, but quickly realized that I was wasting alot of components. Things started going much quicker and easier when I started doing it this way.

Bigjay73 · Jul 28, 2018

VikingsGuy said:
+1. Working up load for new Winchester 1885 .270 this week and serious pressure signs 1.5 grain below published max. Not sure why, but glad I started 2.5 grains below.

I have a Browning 1885 in 06 that does the same when loaded .004 off the lands.

cahunter805 · Jul 28, 2018

I normally start at middle powder charges and work up to the specific rifles max. I use a modified ladder test then group tests and then seating depth to fine tune a load.

Deleted member 20812 · Jul 28, 2018

I always bracket loads by .2 grain increments. I have had loads reduce group size by 1/2 inch in doing so. YMMV.

VikingsGuy · Jul 28, 2018

Bigjay73 said:
I have a Browning 1885 in 06 that does the same when loaded .004 off the lands.

Interesting. I am loading Barnes TTSX and would typically start at -0.050", but the throat is so short on this rifle the best I could do was -0.025" and it was hot even at that.

belly-deep · Jul 28, 2018

N2TRKYS said:
I use to start lower, but quickly realized that I was wasting alot of components. Things started going much quicker and easier when I started doing it this way.

It will go quicker and easier until it doesn’t, I guess.

I can think of one 30-06 load that was red lining from the start at 3056 fps for a 165 gr bullet. And another 300 SAUM that hit max on the second charge above starting. In both those guns, I’m sure I’d be taking a trip to the gunsmith to have a stuck case removed if I started at 1 grain under.

But then again, that is a sampling of hundreds of load work-ups out of dozens of rifles.

Mark my words, it will happen if you do it long enough.

N2TRKYS · Jul 29, 2018

belly-deep said:
It will go quicker and easier until it doesn’t, I guess.

I can think of one 30-06 load that was red lining from the start at 3056 fps for a 165 gr bullet. And another 300 SAUM that hit max on the second charge above starting. In both those guns, I’m sure I’d be taking a trip to the gunsmith to have a stuck case removed if I started at 1 grain under.

But then again, that is a sampling of hundreds of load work-ups out of dozens of rifles.

Mark my words, it will happen if you do it long enough.

How close to the lands are you when this happens to you?

HiMtnHntr · Jul 29, 2018

I have seen dangerous pressure signs significantly below max charges. It's best to play it safe.

Loading Data; Starting Loads?

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