Mounting rings and scope questions

Hummer

Hummer

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I bought a new rifle scope and will take delivery of a new rifle next week. The gun shop offers to do the scope mounting at no cost, just as Cabela's and other storefront dealers do. I have little personal experience with scope mounting but have seen videos in which the rings are lapped with a bar and abrasive, and the screws are tightened to specified inch-pounds with a torque wrench. I have several torque wrenches but none that break in in/lbs. The shop I'm buying from uses alignment bars but doesn't lap the rings. Apparently many don't bother with lapping or with using a torque wrench. Is lapping useful/necessary?

Also, I've read the rifle maker recommends 45 in./lbs. on the front screws, 35 in/lbs. on the rear screws. Not sure exactly what this refers to so I'll have to confirm the measures. I don't know if the shop uses a proper in/lb torque wrench or if they tighten by feel as in many videos. How important is this and what do you recommend? What's your experience?

The rings I have are Talley lightweight one-piece 1" scope mounts for a Zeiss Conquest HD-5 3-15 x 42, on a Kimber Adirondack 7mm-08. I'd like confidence in the best possible accuracy and don't want to screw this up. I want to know about the value of lapping and exact screw torques, particularly with regard to the type of scope mounts I'm using. What's your opinion, should I go to a gunsmith instead? Thanks in advance.
 
Just buy a wheeler scope mounting kit. It comes with a torque wrench, bits, alignment bars, lapping bars etc....everything you need. Then you have it if you ever need to mount another scope. If you are looking for the best possible scope/ ring alignment then lap the rings. Is it needed? If mounted correctly with good rings then probably minimum gain. But it doesn’t hurt either.
 
People will say you don't need to lap, guys making them say they're so good you don't need to lap, but, it's virtually impossible to screw bases to a receiver then attach rings to the bases and get both rings concentric and planar to each other. Whether you'll see the difference is another matter. Most scope tubes are thin and will move so if they're not off much you won't see it.
I've checked mounted rings with a CMM; I lap.
 
Lapping is highly recommended, especially if your planning on shooting longer distances 500+ yards.

Your torque specs seem way to high! I would recommend 20-25 inch lbs for the bases, and no more than 20 inch lbs for the ring halves.
 
Second on the wheeler kit. I bought one and from what I've seen, lapping is definitely important....

Wheelers "delux" kit has 1" and 30mm bars... WELL worth the 100 bucks
 
Ditto the Wheeler.
Mounted 2 sets of Talley's & both lapped & torqued to makers specks. No problemos.
 
Four22 said:
Second on the wheeler kit. I bought one and from what I've seen, lapping is definitely important....

Wheelers "delux" kit has 1" and 30mm bars... WELL worth the 100 bucks
Click to expand...

..second the 1" and 30mm capability. Would also advise a Tipton Gun Vise...
 
I've only had to lap one set of rings. If the rings line up, most of mine have, I don't lap rings.
 
If your base/rings are aluminium no need to lap if they are steel than there may be a burr. The purpose of lapping is to get more base/ring contact to the scope tube. Don't over lap you don't want to start removing blueing. The Wheeler scope mount kit will have everything you need. Ft lbs for bases are 20-25 and rings around 20. Make sure you degrease the threads on the rifle. Once you have bases on put the small level on the base then put the other level on the barrel. Make sure both levels bubbles are the same. Put your scope on the bases and level scope with level on barrel. If you have any questions p.m. me I'll be glad to help.
 
I have Talley lightweight rings, and I don't lap them because Talley says not to. Quoting from Talley's site:

We do not recommend lapping any of our mounts. Since they are machined, it really eliminates the need to do so. Since the lightweight mounts are horizontally split, you can lap if you would like.
We highly advise against lapping our steel rings. Since they are a vertically split ring, lapping can knock them out of round.
Our Picatinny rings, although horizontal split, do not need lapped either. They are a match grade ring and are perfectly round when they come off the machine.
Note: If you lap any Talley rings, it will void any return policy since the mounts have been modified.

Here's the url where I got this from:

http://www.talleymanufacturing.com/About/Frequently-Asked-Questions-(FAQ).aspx
 
What is the primary purpose of your rifle and how important is group size?

Most of you would cringe or laugh at my setup. My rifle is used strictly for hunting. If I can get a 1" group at a 100 yds. I am happy. My 30-06 carries a Leupold FXII 6x36. I have Weaver steel rings and two piece bases. The rings and bases are 30+ years old. The rings were never lapped. The rifle has always shot MOA.
I just shot a nice doe today with that rifle.


My point is, what do you want out of the rifle? If you are a precision shooter, I would get the rings lapped. If you are a hunter, why bother? Is the animal going to be any deader?
 
Thanks to all for your replies! Probably like many of you, I watched the good video on mounting and lapping by MidwayUSA. I'll bet that sells a lot of Wheeler kits. :)

Cerebral Stalker, thank you for posting the link and text from Talley's website. I spent considerable time searching their site without finding that. Why they make it obscure and don't include the information in their product packaging is puzzling. But I did get a reply from Talley that they don't recommend lapping, and to use torques of 25 in/lbs in the receiver, and 18 in/lbs on the caps.

Upon further discussion with the dealer I learned they do have and use the full Wheeler kit bars and levels, but they don't lap the rings. The Talley's do have a beautiful smooth finish inside so as long as they align perfectly, I'm okay with not lapping. Of course, the purpose of a 4 lb. 13 oz. rifle isn't for bench shooting, I just wanted to be confident the mounting would be done right and not be a factor in any inaccuracy. I'll be working with the shop as we mount the scope.

I'm anxious to sight the rifle in on Tuesday. The next challenge will be to find ammo that will group well with the suppressor. Thanks again, I learned from all of you.
 
I usually lap them [I have an old Sinclair lapping kit] since it can't hurt. If you use the 2 piece bases with the rear windage screws, the lapping bar can help with alignment. With the front dovetail being tight, you're more likely to bend the scope than than turn it in the dovetail. You'll want to do your final adjustments with as little as possible movement of the internal parts. Also, I prefer to attach the base/s with torx or slotted screws instead of those crappy hex head screws. Once you feel a little resistance tap the end of the screwdriver handle with a mallet to help set the threads, then just snug them up. Also, don't use loctite or other stuff like hard as nails since you may want to remove the bases someday. Ring screws aren't as critical.Once installed, I've never had one come loose.

If I see a used scope for sale with ring marks on it, I generally pass on it, but that's just me.
 
Last edited:
Lapping isn't meant to align the scope rings. Lapping is only meant to help ensure as much surface contact as possable.
Blueing is only a surface treatment. Same as anodizing and allodine for aluminum.

You can always retreat the surface.
I do use Loctite. The low tension purple loctite.
 
std7mag said:
Lapping isn't meant to align the scope rings. Lapping is only meant to help ensure as much surface contact as possable.
Blueing is only a surface treatment. Same as anodizing and allodine for aluminum.

You can always retreat the surface.
I do use Loctite. The low tension purple loctite.
Click to expand...

The lapping bar sans lapping compound makes a good substitute for the scope when setting things up.
 
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