Lead fragments in hunter harvested deer

I really appreciate this episode. Thanks to Randy and Chris for making me think.

In the far back reaches of my mind, it was something I’d wondered about, but quickly dismissed as “well we’ve survived so far” sort of a thing. Then I listened to the podcast, and got to looking into things for myself. First and foremost, I hunt for meat. And I want to be a good steward of the resources, game and otherwise. Between downstream animals (including eagles) and the people I feed (including my newborn daughter, eventually), I just can’t justify the risk.

I also got to thinking about upland birds. Growing up, the first person to find birdshot in their meal didn’t have to do dishes. But the podcast got me thinking about the possibility of leaching. Chris said that lead is more or less okay until it reacts with acid, so if we remove pellets, we're okay, right? But there are those of us who like to age our birds in the feathers as long as possible, and meat can be acidic, right? As for fragmenting, that's not a concern for relatively slow shot, right? I went looking and found this study: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1828051X.2016.1142360.

So now I’ll be switching for dove, etc, too. Plus, my research led me to this article, which makes a solid argument that steel may actually be better on dove, anyway. http://www.gunsandammo.com/uncategorized/deadly-dove-loads/

I plan to buy some Winchester Xpert Steel loads and pattern them compared to the Remington American Clay and Fields I was using for dove. And since I can barely find commercial ammo for my 300 H&H in any metal, I'm weighing whether to reload with E-tips or just buy a more sensible rifle for which Lead Frees are readily available. The startup cost would be about equivalent.

This is one of those areas where the quote in my signature really sings.

I remember when toothpaste tubes were made of lead. Now they are made of plastic and I am hearing about how plastic is polluting our environment! LOL

I'm sure most of us older guys at lead based pain when we were toddlers

huronmtns said:

First off I'm a going to come out and say "Do I think changing from lead projectiles is a good idea" - Yes I do.

Next comment is on factual evidence.


I have been eating game animals annually, including deer, ducks, geese, rabbits, and other game birds harvested with lead projectiles for more than 45 years.


At my request two years ago I had my blood tested at Mayo Clinic for lead. The results were " No lead detected". The reason I am putting this out there is there is probably some fear that is being generated by this thread toward human consumption of game that has been harvested with lead projectiles. I'm laying this out there for a data point to evaluate.

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That's a very interesting result, we all have some level baseline lead. If you shoot recreationally, you've likely been exposed to lead via lead styphnate in the primers. I'd be curious as to why the results showed the way they did. I would expect to see some baseline level, and a measured result with a comparison against the baseline or a normal/above normal range. I'd be skeptical of the results they provided you. I've seen numerous cases both personally and professionally of lab results providing false negatives/positives because of some combination of a poor test/wrong test/inexperienced doctor interpreting results.

jryoung said:

That's a very interesting result, we all have some level baseline lead. If you shoot recreationally, you've likely been exposed to lead via lead styphnate in the primers. I'd be curious as to why the results showed the way they did. I would expect to see some baseline level, and a measured result with a comparison against the baseline or a normal/above normal range. I'd be skeptical of the results they provided you. I've seen numerous cases both personally and professionally of lab results providing false negatives/positives because of some combination of a poor test/wrong test/inexperienced doctor interpreting results.

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Enter your local Analytical Chemist.

It really depends on the laboratory and the methodology used in the analysis. When a lab reports 'None Detected' - it simply means that they have a limit on the low end where they cannot reliably give a number. If they detect some lead in the sample, but it is below the method's "detectable limit", then the lab reports as 'No lead detected'.

Some methods can give reliable levels at lower limits, but those tend to have instrumentation that is more sophisticated and require a bit more expertise to run.

I did read through the studies linked at the beginning of the thread - and noticed that the methods used in those studies did use ICP-OES. Which tends to be in the "middle" of sensitivity for lead levels in blood (GFAA being higher, ICP-MS being lower). I was curious as to the methods used, as I have done lead blood tests in the past. The entire analytical methodology wasn't in the studies, but the cursory glance showed that testing was done by a competent lab and not a fly-by-night commercial outfit.

Edit to add: The methods selected tend to mirror what questions are being posed. A medical lab is usually concerned with "is there enough lead to make you sick". These tend to be more of a screening method for diagnostic purposes.

More interesting facts: Take note of the daily diet intake values. Taken from Mayo Medical Laboratories.

Lead is a heavy metal commonly found in man's environment that can be an acute and chronic toxin.

Lead was banned from household paints in 1978, but is still found in paint produced for nondomestic use and in artistic pigments. Ceramic products available from noncommercial suppliers (such as local artists) often contain significant amounts of lead that can be leached from the ceramic by weak acids such as vinegar and fruit juices. Lead is found in dirt from areas adjacent to homes painted with lead-based paints and highways where lead accumulates from use of leaded gasoline. Use of leaded gasoline has diminished significantly since the introduction of nonleaded gasolines that have been required in personal automobiles since 1972. Lead is found in soil near abandoned industrial sites where lead may have been used. Water transported through lead or lead-soldered pipe will contain some lead with higher concentrations found in water that is weakly acidic. Some foods (for example: moonshine distilled in lead pipes) and some traditional home medicines contain lead.

Lead expresses its toxicity by several mechanisms. It avidly inhibits aminolevulinic acid dehydratase (ALA-D) and ferrochelatase, 2 of the enzymes that catalyze synthesis of heme; the end result is decreased hemoglobin synthesis resulting in anemia.

Lead also is an electrophile that avidly forms covalent bonds with the sulfhydryl group of cysteine in proteins. Thus, proteins in all tissues exposed to lead will have lead bound to them. The most common sites affected are epithelial cells of the gastrointestinal tract and epithelial cells of the proximal tubule of the kidney.

The typical diet in the United States contributes 1 to 3 mcg of lead per day, of which 1% to 10% is absorbed; children may absorb as much as 50% of the dietary intake, and the fraction of lead absorbed is enhanced by nutritional deficiency. The majority of the daily intake is excreted in the stool after direct passage through the gastrointestinal tract. While a significant fraction of the absorbed lead is rapidly incorporated into bone and erythrocytes, lead ultimately distributes among all tissues, with lipid-dense tissues such as the central nervous system being particularly sensitive to organic forms of lead. All absorbed lead is ultimately excreted in the bile or urine. Soft-tissue turnover of lead occurs within approximately 120 days.

Avoidance of exposure to lead is the treatment of choice. However, chelation therapy is available to treat severe disease. Oral dimercaprol may be used in the outpatient setting except in the most severe cases.

Erythrocyte protoporphyrin is a biologic marker of lead toxicity. Lead inhibits several enzymes in the heme synthesis pathway and causes increased levels of RBC zinc protoporphyrin (ZPP).
Reference Values
LEAD
All ages: 0.0-4.9 mcg/dL
Critical values
Pediatrics (< or =15 years): > or =20.0 mcg/dL
Adults (> or =16 years): > or =70.0 mcg/dL

ZINC PROTOPORPHYRIN
<100 mcg/dL
All measurements assume hematocrit of 42% and are made in mcg/dL per OSHA requirements.
Interpretation
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has identified the blood lead test as the preferred test for detecting lead exposure in children. Chronic whole blood lead levels below 10 mcg/dL are often seen in children. For pediatric patients, there may be an association with blood lead values of 5 to 9 mcg/dL and adverse health effects. Follow-up testing in 3 to 6 months may be warranted. Chelation therapy is indicated when whole blood lead concentration is above 25 mcg/dL in children or above 45 mcg/dL in adults.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has published the following standards for employees working in industry:
-Employees with whole blood lead levels above 60 mcg/dL must be removed from workplace exposure.
-Employees with whole blood lead levels above 50 mcg/dL averaged over 3 blood samplings must be removed from workplace exposure.
-An employee may not return to work in a lead exposure environment until their whole blood lead level is below 40 mcg/dL.
-All measurements assume hematocrit of 42% and are made in mcg/dL per OSHA requirements.

Elevated zinc protoporphyrin (ZPP) levels in adults may indicate long-term (chronic) lead exposure or may be indicative of iron deficiency anemia or anemia of chronic disease.

JR,


I went back and reviewed my lab results. The lab value along with the no lead detected was "Less than 1 mcg/L". That at least gives you a threshold value for the test result.

huronmtns said:

JR,


I went back and reviewed my lab results. The lab value along with the no lead detected was "Less than 1 mcg/L". That at least gives you a threshold value for the test result.

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Did you take anything prior to the test, or was it a straight blood test? I think activated and passive are the correct terms. Activated meaning a chelating agent is given to draw lead out of the bone and test chronic exposure as lead in blood has a half-life of 30 days.

jryoung said:

Did you take anything prior to the test, or was it a straight blood test? I think activated and passive are the correct terms. Activated meaning a chelating agent is given to draw lead out of the bone and test chronic exposure as lead in blood has a half-life of 30 days.

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I did make a mistake in saying my test result was a blood test. Looking for the lab result level last night revealed that this test result was a 24 hour urine test. There was no activation before this test. The screening for this test was part of a hypercortisolism condition that was being explored.