Utah continues push to eliminate public land

No hard feelings! Until Senator Lee and these other pro PLT folks can give us multiple examples of how a state can and has held onto and not sold these lands then they can go pedal their wares somewhere else. It’s just unfortunate that so many people jump on the anti-government bandwagon without any thought of repercussions.

I agree - this is from the 2016 Republican Party Platform: "Congress shall immediately pass universal legislation providing for a timely and orderly mechanism requiring the federal government to convey certain federally controlled public lands to states. We call upon all national and state leaders and representatives to exert their utmost power and influence to urge the transfer of those lands, identified in the review process, to all willing states for the benefit of the states and the nation as a whole." See https://www.gop.com/platform/americas-natural-resources/.

This is not fringe - they are simply doing what they stated they wanted to do. Everyone needs to stop supporting candidates who espouse these views, regardless of political affiliation.

appaloosa said:

Imagine what the world would be like if every election wasn't decided based on guns and abortions.

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I can't imagine, but one can always hold onto the dream.

Wait a minute, now I am confused, I thought I had to fear the global jewish banking conspiracy led by the Queen of England (who I am surprised to hear is jewish). Now you are saying I have to fear the Mormons? Or should I fear Catholic judges, or muslim cab drivers, or . . . . I think I will take a pass on religious fear for today thank you.

I tried to do my part. I emailed both my Senators tonight. Also responded to one of Sen. Lee's tweets, but we know he likely won't notice it. As far as my Senators go, they likely would oppose anyhow, but this is what I sent them. I hope it is correct and logical. If someone want's to use it for contacting their Senators, feel free.

Today I am contacting you in regards to recent rhetoric coming from Sen. Lee (R-UT). On Twitter he has began a call for a New Homestead Act. I ask that you oppose this at every turn. These public lands are the lands for all Americans. Sen. Lee would like to see them taken from all Americans and given over to the States. While normally, I would be a proponent of States' Rights, he is off base on his claims. He claims that these lands are only for the elites, but economic studies have shown that public lands in the West are responsible for $600 billion in the form of camping, hunting, fishing and other outdoor activities. These monies are not coming only from the rich. These are locals and out of state individuals that travel for the opportunities that these public lands provide. Second, he claims that the Federal Government has neglected a duty to turn the land over to the states. This is a bald faced lie. To quote the Utah Enabling Act: "That the people inhabiting said proposed State do agree and declare that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within the boundaries thereof..." I truly hope that, should he try to put these bills before the Senate, that you rise to speak and use this language against him. Finally, Sen. Lee claims that Utah will be able to manage these lands with no problems. The public universities were not as confident with this assessment. This would lead to the sale of the land since these lands would be under control of the State Land Board. As I would think you are aware, the Land Boards in the West are required by State Constitutions, to manage the lands for a profit. Should the land not be profitable, then sale becomes the only option.

I thank you for your time and service as a Senator,

A fella takes a few days off to relax and enjoy the long holiday weekend and you guys take an issue where we all agree, and turn into a religious cat fight. That's precisely how guys like Mike Lee win.

I didn't post this to start a debate about LDS and public lands, and would simply note that many fantastic conservationists are followers of the Mormon faith, and darned fine people. I have no problem with Mormonism at all, and while UT is the hotbed of anti-public land politics, it's also home to some of the kindest & most selfless people I've ever met.

The key for us is to be able to fight side by side on issues we agree on, while putting our disagreements on the back burner. Right now, forces who oppose the basic concept of public lands have their hands on the throttle of our government and our outdoor way of life.

How you worship shouldn't be what we're arguing about. That people like Mike Lee are intent on stealing our church (public lands) is where the fight is.

We need to be more like these guys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wZ39aAhokQ

Utah Rep. Love unveils bipartisan group to promote Outdoor Recreation in Utah... https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2018/07/09/former-campaign-opponents/

Maybe the monetization of public land as in a tourist approach will help some R's in Utah see the benefit of protecting public land.

Ben, ease off. If people want to play stereotype symantics, well hell... That's internet forum banter.
I never made an adverse comment related to any religion. My query / was based on researching historical and current facts and query over possible relation.

The history of Utah is based on a religion, when researching the LDS faith/Mormon plight - for historical research on the movement west to escape a form of persecution due to religious beliefs (not necessary to jump into the religious specifics), they sought their own land and governed themselves within a sovereign manner UNTIL the federal government entered the scene, made it a State and removed the land that the LDS/Mormons considered their own... Hence the query over commonalities over the base Utah as the hot point over our public lands. Political issue, State, political affiliation, history.

Move on or maybe better said, carry on...

I've seen a lot of Mormon bashing in the hunting community, and I think it stinks. It makes us tear each other apart over an issue that isn't very cut or dry, ignores all of the Catholics, Evangelicals, Methodists and Lutherans out there who think similarly and are on board with the assault on public lands (like Daines, Walden, Gianforte, Cheney, etc). I'm all for the playful banter that comes with "my state is better than yours," but come on, this is about politicians stealing our birthright, not trying to justify why one religion is better than another.

If we can't get beyond arguing over petty things, and focus on the task at hand, then we don't deserve to keep public lands in public hands.

I've been one of the loudest in criticizing the bigoted anti-Mormon comments posted by some on this forum over the years. They're baseless, inaccurate, and uncalled-for fear mongering by the uninformed.

As somebody that was raised Mormon, married a Presbyterian, has two brothers that went on LDS missions, still lives in Utah, and sits on the BHA-UT Board of Directors... I can assure you I know more than most here about the relationship between the Land Grab and LDS Church. Hint: There isn't one!

However, there are always going to be people that look for justification of their beliefs and will find a way to prove it to themselves. Hence, this article on Ammon Bundy... Too good not to read.

https://www.hjnews.com/news/local/a...cle_0606cac8-f943-5ff6-a8a6-2827a871d87f.html

Apparently you've found a value to bring this thread back into the scene.

I know not to whom you are referencing with respect to your post. If you have taken information from my posts as anything but a direct reference to history and only history, you are mistaken. If you're simply looking for a fight, get over yourself.

Two favorite quotes related to the value of history;

We are not makers of history, we are made by history. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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The more you know about the past, the better prepared you are for the future. - Theodore Roosevelt

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I appreciate the problems Utahns face in their State with so much of the bottom half locked up by the Feds. The only other State so handicapped in development is Alaska. The NW section of Utah is basically the moon. The residents should have more control of the lands within their borders to allow for progress and development. After all they’re paying the taxes to live there. I think they’re still rightfully bitter about Obama’s last minute illegal expansion of Bears Ears and Grand Staircase which 45 thankfully revoked.

ibehuntin said:

I appreciate the problems Utahns face in their State with so much of the bottom half locked up by the Feds. The only other State so handicapped in development is Alaska. The NW section of Utah is basically the moon. The residents should have more control of the lands within their borders to allow for progress and development. After all they’re paying the taxes to live there. I think they’re still rightfully bitter about Obama’s last minute illegal expansion of Bears Ears and Grand Staircase which 45 thankfully revoked.

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Ok, if this troll doesn't share an IP address with greenhorn I'll eat my hat......

Popcorn anyone?

ibehuntin said:

I appreciate the problems Utahns face in their State with so much of the bottom half locked up by the Feds. The only other State so handicapped in development is Alaska. The NW section of Utah is basically the moon. The residents should have more control of the lands within their borders to allow for progress and development. After all they’re paying the taxes to live there. I think they’re still rightfully bitter about Obama’s last minute illegal expansion of Bears Ears and Grand Staircase which 45 thankfully revoked.

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You probably should read the enabling acts of when these territories were granted statehood. Disagreeing with Bears Ears is fine, calling it illegal is disingenuous.

JLS said:

You probably should read the enabling acts of when these territories were granted statehood. Disagreeing with Bears Ears is fine, calling it illegal is disingenuous.

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Expanding a National Monument without the consent of the people, esp. of Utah, via EO is and was illegal. Congress has the say not an exiting lame duck. If it wasn't illegal the EO would still stand but it doesn't.

ibehuntin said:

Expanding a National Monument without the consent of the people, esp. of Utah, via EO is and was illegal. Congress has the say not an exiting lame duck. If it wasn't illegal the EO would still stand but it doesn't.

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This is actually incorrect. The president (lame duck or not) has the authority to designate monument status. Congress' role is then to ratify a management plan for said monument.

The monument was reduced in size via presidential declaration, which has nothing to do with the legality of the original declaration. In fact, President Trump's reduction of the monument is questionable in its legality, hence the reason there is currently litigation challenging the reduction.

"The residents should have more control of the lands within their borders to allow for progress and development. After all they’re paying the taxes to live there."
@ibehuntin

I Wouldn't mind you elaborating on who pays the taxes on the blm and FS ground in Utah.

elkmagnet said:

I Wouldn't mind you elaborating on who pays the taxes on the blm and FS ground in Utah.

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Should we talk about PILT?

JLS said:

Should we talk about PILT?

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Leave enough rope to make a noose.