Pelican
Well-known member
You’ve drawn a nanny only mtn goat tag in Colorado where mtn goats are not native. The tag is essentially OIL. Would you shoot a nanny with a kid?
Would you shoot a nanny mtn goat with a kid?
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sneakypete
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No, most states it's not legal to shoot a nanny with a kid!
JohnCushman
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If you're willing to orphan a kid for the sake of your ego, and then give yourself the option to lie about it, then you're an asshole and shouldn't be hunting.
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Alabama
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I agree with Cush. Never pull the trigger on a female with dependent young!
406LIFE
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This is eloquent enough. I have nothing to add.
Interesting question...how about a cow elk with a calf? Doe antelope with a fawn? Do you hold your fire until you are sure that that animal is dry? Can you ever really be sure before pulling the trigger? How do you define dependent young?
AvidIndoorsman
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From a purely moral stand point I have been curious about his kinda thing, I find it interesting you cant shoot a bear cub, but you can harvest almost any juvenile ungulate. I certainly finding the idea of shooting a baby bear terrible... but why... I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on a calf elk.
npaden
Well-known member
If you read the book "A Beast the Color of Winter" it pretty much says that you are almost certainly dooming that kid to die a cruel death. Deer fawns and Elk calves can routinely make it without their mother, but the chance of a mountain goat kid surviving without it's mother is pretty close to zero.
So essentially you are killing 2 goats with that one shot and taking a chance at a OIL tag out of someone else's pocket.
My 2 cents.
So essentially you are killing 2 goats with that one shot and taking a chance at a OIL tag out of someone else's pocket.
My 2 cents.
PrairieHunter
Well-known member
Interesting point. One of the coolest bear mounts I have seen was a color phase cub at a bow shop in Casper, no idea the story behind it. Mountain goat kid would be unique if nothing else. I always wondered if anyone shot a lamb on that sheep herd eradication hunt in MT.
Gerald Martin
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This. Goats are not like other ungulates. They have a very defined pecking order in the herd. A nanny with a kid is high in ranking and will be able to secure feeding areas from other goats during the winter when food is scarce. An orphaned kid is at the very bottom of the pecking order and will be marginalized by other goats who are fending for themselves. It is my understanding that a high percentage of them starve.
LopeHunter
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I had a bighorn ewe tag and the biologist said by the time the season opened that the ewes were merely supplementing what the lambs were eating by grazing and the lambs would do fine. I did shoot a dry ewe that was ancient. If the biologist told me the nannies were not critical for survival of the kids then would have no issue but if the biologist said was an issue then would look for a dry nanny. I shot a billy and did see some nannies including ones with kids. One of the kids looked very small so not sure if a runt or a late breeding. If a late breeding then maybe too many billies had been shot out of the unit. They did cut tags the next year.
tim629
Active member
I think LopeHunter hit the nail on the head for me: ask biologists
here on the east coast our seasons really don't start until the young are able to be dependent so if i'm hunting in colorado, the biologist says the kid will be fine without the nanny by the opening of season then it comes down to opportunity
here on the east coast our seasons really don't start until the young are able to be dependent so if i'm hunting in colorado, the biologist says the kid will be fine without the nanny by the opening of season then it comes down to opportunity
HSi-ESi
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I haven't personally drawn a Mtn Goat tag, but I have been on hunts. If and when I get the opportunity - I will only take a Billy. Reasons mentioned above - and adding that already high mortality rates for kids and the fact that Goats don't produce as many offspring over the course of their life.
Cush summed it up nicely.
Cush summed it up nicely.
There is plenty of research out there to prove this not to be true. Struggling goat populations in Montana are the reason why its now illegal in some units to kill a nanny with a kid. Goats are considerably different then most ungulates. So in CO just because its legal doesn't make it right.
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Pelican
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I started this pole as this question came up the other day when I was talking with a friend about my nanny only goat tag. I mentioned that I had reservations about shooting a nanny with a kid even though I have shot cow elk with calves, etc. He agreed that it seems wrong to shoot a nanny with a kid, but neither of us could come up with an objective reason for our opinion. I also admit that I recognize how hypocritical it is for me to think this. I don’t doubt the validity of the information presented in the thread concerning goats in MT, but my situations is also quite different. The population estimate for the unit I drew has increased from 75 goats in 2003 to 290 goats in 2017. Also, the percentage of the population harvested annually in the unit from 2012 to 2015 has ranged from 12%-15%, which is much higher than the typical harvest rate (1%-5%) in many states or provinces. As goats don’t grow on trees, either kid survival is much higher or goats are immigrating from other units or both. I’m not trying to persuade anyone to change their opinion but just trying to trough out some additional information.
pointingdogsrule
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I had a "similar" situation many years ago. I was in Wyoming for archery season (whitetail). Tons of deer around. A nice doe walks by and I shoot her. As I sit there and watch her die here comes a fawn that had been following far behind. Not quite your situation, however, there are circumstances where you might not realize that she has a youngster.
good luck to all
the dog
good luck to all
the dog
Addicting
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I haven’t voted because of the way the pole is worded. I would try my best to shoot a dry one but it can be hard to tell sometimes. If a at the time of the trigger I was satisfied that was the animal for me and then an offspring walk out in view I would not lie and say she was dry. I would not want to taint a legal hunt with the guilt of self induced deception.
If you're trying to justify making an orphan of a kid I must direct your attention to Cushmans' post. That is you in a nutshell.
Pelican
Well-known member
I intentionally worded it the way I did to keep it more of a yes vs. no poll. The "Yes, but I would tell everyone she was dry" response was added because when my buddy and I were talking about it we realized we knew several people that had shot nannies, but nobody ever mentioned if they were dry or not. Maybe I should have worded it "would you knowingly shoot a nanny with a kid" as Addicting and pointingdogsrule both point out that most or all of us would avoid shooting a cow elk with a calf with a seemingly dry cow was available.
I don't agree with killing a nanny with a kid. I did however, figure out who the asshole is. mtmuley
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