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Ladder Test

Brian in Montana

Brian in Montana

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Joined
Jan 20, 2017
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Ramsay, MT
I've yet to try a ladder test in working up a load. I've read several articles about it, enough to understand the basic idea and physics behind it, basically your working with only one variable or component at a time and shooting one shot per very small incremental change looking for accuracy nodes or "sweet spots". Some do it by where the bullets print on a target, some use a chronograph and look for nodes by deviations in muzzle velocity. I'm interested in trying this. It makes sense and I could see how it might save time, frustration, and components, but I'd like to hear what others have tried and what seems to work best for you.

Any advice and/or anecdotes?
 
I am going to go with velocity spread approach for my 2 new guns that I am bringing to WY 'lope season. It seems more efficient and less subjective. The logic resonates with me, but the proof is in the pudding. I may find my self switching to ladder if it doesn't work as predicted.
 
Shoot it at a minimum of 400 yards. 600 yards is better. I use a ladder test to find my powder node and test all the charges in the node. Then seating depth test after that.
 
BuzzH said:
Ladder test=waste of time...akin to barrel break in.
Click to expand...

What’s you’re reasoning? Not saying you’re wrong as I agree with you for guys that are going to shoot max distances of 3-400 yards. I think it serves a purpose if you’re going to stretch it out though
 
Fire_9 said:
What’s you’re reasoning? Not saying you’re wrong as I agree with you for guys that are going to shoot max distances of 3-400 yards. I think it serves a purpose if you’re going to stretch it out though
Click to expand...

From what I read, ladders end up being an in-efficient and error prone proxy for velocity. With modern, accurate, inexpensive chronos readily available, velocity spreads/SDs allow you to find the same nodes with fewer rounds and with reduction of the effect of human shooting error. I am not saying it is right as I am just starting with this approach, but it make good sense to me and just trying to answer your question. As for 300 vs 600, the pros and cons of the system are the same. In theory, at 600, may be easier to see ladder differences, but human influence is also increased - so velocity it is for me this summer.
 
So... Seems some of yous are saying that, for a guy like me just trying to put together some accurate hunting loads for a factory rifle, that I'm not likely to shoot more than about 400yds as a maximum, I'd be better off just loading series of test batches than starting with a ladder test?
 
Brian in Montana said:
So... Seems some of yous are saying that, for a guy like me just trying to put together some accurate hunting loads for a factory rifle, that I'm not likely to shoot more than about 400yds as a maximum, I'd be better off just loading series of test batches than starting with a ladder test?
Click to expand...

I am saying that in my amateur opinion, testing groups (3 per level) to determine velocity variance at various powder levels is easier/cheaper/better than trying to develop via ladder test whether you are a 200 yd hunter, a 400 yard hunter or a 600yd hunter, even 600 yd benchrest guy; factory or custom. I am also saying that ladder tests are tricky to read, expensive to shoot and add human and environmental error - regardless of your purpose. But as a relative beginner I recognize my opinion needs to be taken with a "grain of powder" so to speak.
 
For what you plan on doing with it, I would just shoot for groups at 100 or 200 yards. If you were going to stretch things out, I would say shoot your groups or ladder test at a minimum of 300 and 600 if you could. I’m far from an expert though so do whatever makes you feel comfortable.
 
Sierra recommends a ladder test, and had a good article about it on their website.

I do ladder test at 150 yards, depending upon caliber. I've found bullets from Hornady, Sierra, Nosler tend to like a 0.020" jump. All copper bullets usually recommend a 0.050" jump. VLD is usually close to touching the lands.
This has been my experience, with my rifles. Doesn't mean it is best for yours.

After ladder, no chrono involved just looking for accuracy, then seating depth, followed by action tuning if it's a new to me rifle.
 
Brian in Montana said:
So... Seems some of yous are saying that, for a guy like me just trying to put together some accurate hunting loads for a factory rifle, that I'm not likely to shoot more than about 400yds as a maximum, I'd be better off just loading series of test batches than starting with a ladder test?
Click to expand...

Well, that's what I do! :)
 
and you know your test batch is most accurate in your rifle, how???

I can throw some loads together, and call them good, or I can know they are the best that my rifle is capable of producing.
 
VikingsGuy said:
I am saying that in my amateur opinion, testing groups (3 per level) to determine velocity variance at various powder levels is easier/cheaper/better than trying to develop via ladder test whether you are a 200 yd hunter, a 400 yard hunter or a 600yd hunter, even 600 yd benchrest guy; factory or custom. I am also saying that ladder tests are tricky to read, expensive to shoot and add human and environmental error - regardless of your purpose. But as a relative beginner I recognize my opinion needs to be taken with a "grain of powder" so to speak.
Click to expand...

This is what I do, only I shoot 5 per level and focus on group size instead of velocity because I don't have a chrono. May not be the best way, but it works for me. Although, I've started noticing a lot of people focusing on velocity when working up loads.
 
Ladder test works for me on my competition guns that I shoot to 1000yds with. Use them for every new barrel and for my use it saves time. Last competition barrel found my load in 24 rounds fired and that included three 5 shots groups at 300yds to verify. Production run hunting rifles have a lot of inconsistencies and sometimes expectations maybe too high for accuracy you wish to achieve. Everyone should try to get the best accuracy possible out of their rifle no matter what type though. Try it for yourself, then you’ll know. Choose a powder, stick with the bullet of choice, use same primers and have fun. If you need help PM me with some specifics about rifle and load.
 
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