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Well Writen Piece on Balancing and Managing our Nations Forest Lands

There is a certain segment of society that wants no logging done on public land. All the while living house made of wood and hsing paper products galore.
In my expiereance logging is a good thing on the land scape when done right. It is also good for hunting as long as its done properly and with regard for closing and remediating of roads after its done.
 
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There is a certain segment of society that wants no logging done on public land. All the while living house made of wood and hsing(sic) paper products galore.
In my expiereance(sic) logging is a good thing on the land scape when done right. It is also good for hunting as long as its done properly and with regard for closing and remediating of roads after its done.
Click to expand...
I submit to you that the population of those opposing all logging on public lands is very small, almost negligible. I think most folks agree that logging is a good thing when done right. "Done right" is a critical phrase. One important consideration is that there are many USFS areas where building roads and logging in the "right way" is not possible or profitable ... nor a good thing. Furthermore, considering the millions and millions of acres or public forests, it is just not feasible to proactively manage by logging everything and then continuing to "manage" the forests by repeating periodically. The reality is that logging is a good thing ... but the practicality is that logging is limited on public forests, significantly!
 
Bob McKane with the Environmental Protection Agency presented some interesting research and modelling (VELMA) results that illustrated the complexity and trade-offs of forests around water, wood and carbon.
McKane described recent research showing that fast-growing Douglas fir forests (15 to 45 years old) use a lot of water. Dominance of this age group in a watershed can therefore result in water deficits in a drainage.

Very young forests (1 to 15 years) after clear-cutting use relatively small amounts of water resulting in more water flowing in a stream. There is a transition of water use from one age to another.

Mature and old-age forests are in the middle between these extremes. McKane and other researchers hypothesize the water use transition from fast to moderate occurs at around 80 years of age, but more research is needed to discover when the transition occurs and how long it lasts.

The model his team has developed allows managers to look at the mix of forests across the landscape, and the resulting water effects of different mixes of forest ages in a watershed.
Click to expand...

Interesting read over all. This, in particular, is worth further reading.

Thanks for sharing.
 
Straight Arrow said:
I submit to you that the population of those opposing all logging on public lands is very small, almost negligible. I think most folks agree that logging is a good thing when done right. "Done right" is a critical phrase. One important consideration is that there are many USFS areas where building roads and logging in the "right way" is not possible or profitable ... nor a good thing. Furthermore, considering the millions and millions of acres or public forests, it is just not feasible to proactively manage by logging everything and then continuing to "manage" the forests by repeating periodically. The reality is that logging is a good thing ... but the practicality is that logging is limited on public forests, significantly!
Click to expand...

I would say the vast majority of Americans today have no clue about how their natural resources come to their door step and what resources are in the products they buy every day. Click on Amazon and it shows up at your door! And most American's today are easily swayed by the propaganda they are constantly being fed.

Dave is trying to inform the uninformed masses about our complex forest ecosystems in a non-hyperbolic manner and I like what he is attempting to do.
 
I think most Americans have a clue about natural resources but are complacent and take for granted the chain of production and distribution of products to the doorstep.

Dave Atkins was able to provide a balanced and objective perspective of a complex topic in a fairly concise article, and I agree "with lots of good facts and insight".
My statements are not contradictory to that, merely to Walker's assertion.
 
BWALKER77 said:
There is a certain segment of society that wants no logging done on public land. All the while living house made of wood and hsing paper products galore.
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Walkers comment is spot on. And that certain segment is much larger than you would like to think, Straight Arrow.
 
Straight Arrow said:
I submit to you that the population of those opposing all logging on public lands is very small, almost negligible. I think most folks agree that logging is a good thing when done right. "Done right" is a critical phrase. One important consideration is that there are many USFS areas where building roads and logging in the "right way" is not possible or profitable ... nor a good thing. Furthermore, considering the millions and millions of acres or public forests, it is just not feasible to proactively manage by logging everything and then continuing to "manage" the forests by repeating periodically. The reality is that logging is a good thing ... but the practicality is that logging is limited on public forests, significantly!
Click to expand...

I completed disagree. The average person is totaly ignorant of forest resource managment, but is quit adament they are anti logging. At least thats been my expierance.
As far as subsidising logging on public lands. Manage it with the saw or let it burn. Either way its going to cost money. I dont have figures, but I susoect the katter cost more than the former.
 
BWALKER77 said:
I completed disagree. The average person is totaly ignorant of forest resource managment, but is quit adament they are anti logging. At least thats been my expierance.
As far as subsidising logging on public lands. Manage it with the saw or let it burn. Either way its going to cost money. I dont have figures, but I susoect the katter cost more than the former.
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I think you're a prime example of, well, your example of the average person.

Lots and lots of variables to consider regarding public land logging. Rotation age, markets, stumpage prices, housing starts, species, soil types, roads (or not), distance to mills, NAFTA, tariffs, type of logging, other uses and priorities, endangered/threatened species, NEPA, BMP's, etc. etc. etc.

Its not simply manage by saw or manage by letting it burn...never has been and shouldn't be.
 
Old growth forest and wilderness are a great thing but so is forest management and timber production. All in moderation and under the notion of multiple use. Unfortunately, with the current housing market and paper production, not much logging is going on in Northern Minnesota. Great article though.
 
The average person is totaly(sic) ignorant of forest resource managment(sic), but is quit(sic) adament(sic) they are anti logging.
Click to expand...
"Totally ignorant" and average person "anti logging" are some strong assertions, somewhat demeaning of the "average person".

Consider this. Cost increases for lumber and for housing have been in the forefront in the news continuously for sometime. Housing costs are a topic of interest to most "average persons". The National Association of Home Builders just this past week projected an uptick in single family home building from 850k homes in 2017 to 910k homes to be built in 2018, in spite of the lumber prices going up 62 percent since January 2017 and with about a third of the lumber coming from Canada. That organization estimates an increase of $9k per home due to the recently imposed tariffs. The other consideration explained is that the labor shortage is not in the timber extraction industry, but in the building industry due to a shortage of skilled craftsmen. Since most of the timber is extracted from private lands and there does not appear to be a shortage of timber (it's economics not market shortage driving costs) it stands to reason that the need to significantly expand public land logging is mostly a forest management and fire risk mitigation based concern, rather than a need for more lumber or jobs. So let's support increased funding for USFS and BLM and push for better management where appropriate.
 
Housing starts do not tell the whole story. There is an export market for logs and lumber as well. Then you have paper products, biomass for co gen plants, etc.
 
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These last few lines pretty well sum up the article.

""Forest management is first and foremost a social endeavor.”
This is especially true in a democracy. Finding balance is a tricky business."


Dave is retired USFS. Do you like what he is attempting to do, Buzz?
 
The National Association of Home Builders just this past week projected an uptick in single family home building from 850k homes in 2017 to 910k homes to be built in 2018, in spite of the lumber prices going up 62 percent since January 2017 and with about a third of the lumber coming from Canada. That organization estimates an increase of $9k per home due to the recently imposed tariffs.


BOOM!
 
tjones said:
The National Association of Home Builders just this past week projected an uptick in single family home building from 850k homes in 2017 to 910k homes to be built in 2018, in spite of the lumber prices going up 62 percent since January 2017 and with about a third of the lumber coming from Canada. That organization estimates an increase of $9k per home due to the recently imposed tariffs.


BOOM!
Click to expand...

Couple years ago you were pointing out the ridiculously low price of lumber and now you are complaining about the high price. Hard guy to please!
 
BigHornRam said:
Couple years ago you were pointing out the ridiculously low price of lumber and now you are complaining about the high price. Hard guy to please!
Click to expand...

Please point out exactly where I complained about high lumber prices.
 
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