Colorado Application increases

Wow, that was huge increase in applicants! I'm too old to get into the game for the big three. But I'm afraid the pref point structure (cost) in CO will also have a big impact on future deer and elk point creep. I guess I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand I liked it when you had to have a little skin in the game to apply. But also think the lower cost will help with hunter recruitment and getting more young people (future conservationists) involved in our sport.
 
They might as well just can the entire system and just sell raffle tickets for designated units.
 
I read the article and contacted a friend I know at CPW. The increase in applications for Elk jumped up why more than anyone expected. I'm told the days of getting a tag with 0 to 5 points are probably over. I predict that OTC tags will probably be reduced in the future to provide more tags for the draw. I have to say I will probably look at other states first from now on to hunt and put CO as second and third choices.
 
Its not going to stay $3 to apply. CPW didn't have the authority to change that.

As of 2 days ago, they now do. Expect the application fee for NRs to jump from $3 up to $20, and for residents to go from $3 to $10.

Sure, they could go less, but why would they?
 
MW357 said:
I read the article and contacted a friend I know at CPW. The increase in applications for Elk jumped up why more than anyone expected. .
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I'm not sure anyone with a brain thought applications wouldn't explode...face it a lot hunters feel $350 or whatever the cow tag fee was for a preference point before was "unaffordable" to their budget. I know most of my Florida family and friends that have got in touch with me about elk hunting are all pumped until you tell them tag costs...then all of sudden they cant do it... but you offer an almost free way to apply and it's like the tag cost doesnt exist lol(until they get drawn lol) it's a mind set thing with the average hunter
 
vanish said:
Its not going to stay $3 to apply. CPW didn't have the authority to change that.

As of 2 days ago, they now do. Expect the application fee for NRs to jump from $3 up to $20, and for residents to go from $3 to $10.

Sure, they could go less, but why would they?
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Do you really think that's go to slow app numbers enough to matter? Even at $20 a pop that's still the cheapest app in the west. I'm usually highly supportive of CPW, but they made a bad call on this one. Over the next few seasons I am curious to see what they implement to help slow app numbers. Mandatory non refundable license, preference point fees? We'll see I guess.
 
Mudranger1 said:
I'm not sure anyone with a brain thought applications wouldn't explode...face it a lot hunters feel $350 or whatever the cow tag fee was for a preference point before was "unaffordable" to their budget. I know most of my Florida family and friends that have got in touch with me about elk hunting are all pumped until you tell them tag costs...then all of sudden they cant do it... but you offer an almost free way to apply and it's like the tag cost doesnt exist lol(until they get drawn lol) it's a mind set thing with the average hunter
Click to expand...

CPW was predicting an increase as was I but not to the magnitude of what's happen.
 
Mudranger1 said:
... it's like the tag cost doesnt exist lol(until they get drawn lol) it's a mind set thing with the average hunter
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I think this is very accurate. We will probably see a lot of tags get reissued due to non-payment, and a lot of tags returned due to date conflicts, etc when folks draw tags they werent expecting, which will be another big Customer Service mess for CPW (and give everyone something else to gripe about this summer). I believe AZ had an issue with this in the past.

I've never bought the argument that needing to front Non-Resident tag fees made/make it a 'rich mans sport' - if you can afford the tag you should be able to afford to front it. Yes - there is the whole 'statistics' angle where you are lending money with a very, very low chance of needing to actually pay it out, but still.
 
cedahm said:
I think this is very accurate. We will probably see a lot of tags get reissued due to non-payment, and a lot of tags returned due to date conflicts, etc when folks draw tags they werent expecting, which will be another big Customer Service mess for CPW (and give everyone something else to gripe about this summer). I believe AZ had an issue with this in the past.

I've never bought the argument that needing to front Non-Resident tag fees made/make it a 'rich mans sport' - if you can afford the tag you should be able to afford to front it. Yes - there is the whole 'statistics' angle where you are lending money with a very, very low chance of needing to actually pay it out, but still.
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100% agree it's not like tag prices were cut. I imagine that as far as deer or elk go there are a ton of people that put in for preference points and/or applied for unit units they will never draw. I don't imagine that dropping the upfront cost caused many people to apply to 0 point units that wouldn't have otherwise. I think that there will definitely be a healthy amount of reissued tags, and that draw odds will be weird for a couple of years, but it's not like the people who don't have the money to hunt elk will suddenly be able to because they can pay a couple months later. I wonder if there are just going to be wonky draw odds for 5 years as people drop out of the point game as prices rise and how many people will just walk away from their 1 or 2 points.

Also I predict that there are a HUGE number of residents that draw this year and then don't actually go hunting, or go for one weekend and hardly try... I'm preparing for 2018 % hunters successful to take a steep nose dive.
 
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ishootdasmallones said:
Do you really think that's go to slow app numbers enough to matter? Even at $20 a pop that's still the cheapest app in the west. I'm usually highly supportive of CPW, but they made a bad call on this one. Over the next few seasons I am curious to see what they implement to help slow app numbers. Mandatory non refundable license, preference point fees? We'll see I guess.
Click to expand...

I didn't comment either way, just stating the facts. Every article I've read has wailed about how its only $3 like its going to stay $3 forever and has not mentioned anything about the act that was just signed.

However, now that you've asked, yes I do think $20 a pop is going to matter. That changes it from $18 to apply for 6 species to $120. That's pretty significant to people who wouldn't front the money before. I do think app numbers will increase, but why do you think CPW would want to slow app numbers? They're making money off people who aren't even hunting at the expense of some people whining about their draw odds; the same people that are going to apply anyway because they're "serious" about hunting. Total win for CPW.

I don't like my draw odds decreasing as much as the next guy, but I am fairly well convinced that the people who bought in at $3 are buying PP without a real plan for actually hunting. They'll be just as likely to eat the $3 as they will to plan for a hunt some day. Some will continue buying PP because they feel "pot committed" but I don't think anyone is going to "cash out" of the 1 PP "to make their $3 worth it".

Lastly, everything you read on hunting out west from "serious" hunters says "apply everywhere you can afford" ... the irony is, these are the same people whining about more people applying.

I'll find out if I am eating my words in what, a little more than a week?
 
vanish said:
I didn't comment either way, just stating the facts. Every article I've read has wailed about how its only $3 like its going to stay $3 forever and has not mentioned anything about the act that was just signed.

However, now that you've asked, yes I do think $20 a pop is going to matter. That changes it from $18 to apply for 6 species to $120. That's pretty significant to people who wouldn't front the money before. I do think app numbers will increase, but why do you think CPW would want to slow app numbers? They're making money off people who aren't even hunting at the expense of some people whining about their draw odds; the same people that are going to apply anyway because they're "serious" about hunting. Total win for CPW.

I don't like my draw odds decreasing as much as the next guy, but I am fairly well convinced that the people who bought in at $3 are buying PP without a real plan for actually hunting. They'll be just as likely to eat the $3 as they will to plan for a hunt some day. Some will continue buying PP because they feel "pot committed" but I don't think anyone is going to "cash out" of the 1 PP "to make their $3 worth it".

Lastly, everything you read on hunting out west from "serious" hunters says "apply everywhere you can afford" ... the irony is, these are the same people whining about more people applying.

I'll find out if I am eating my words in what, a little more than a week?
Click to expand...

I agree with you. More people applying is good for hunting and great for CPW. It's just a bummer for my draw odds with very few points. Which I like to complain about. Lol.
In the end I always hunt some place but I really enjoy my CO trips.
 
I disagree with you vanish, I don't think $20 a species is going to matter one bit. That's still bargain basement prices, even at $120 for 6 species. I just sent Idaho $220 for 3 species. A preference point in WY can be up to $150. The economy is good, people want to hunt, unless there is a limiting factor, point creep will increase and draw odds will diminish further.

I do agree with you that it's a total win for CPW.

CPW had a good system in place, and what they needed to do was look at a more cost effective way to issue refunds, not change the whole system.

I guess time will tell.
 
vanish said:
I didn't comment either way, just stating the facts. Every article I've read has wailed about how its only $3 like its going to stay $3 forever and has not mentioned anything about the act that was just signed.

However, now that you've asked, yes I do think $20 a pop is going to matter. That changes it from $18 to apply for 6 species to $120. That's pretty significant to people who wouldn't front the money before. I do think app numbers will increase, but why do you think CPW would want to slow app numbers? They're making money off people who aren't even hunting at the expense of some people whining about their draw odds; the same people that are going to apply anyway because they're "serious" about hunting. Total win for CPW.

I don't like my draw odds decreasing as much as the next guy, but I am fairly well convinced that the people who bought in at $3 are buying PP without a real plan for actually hunting. They'll be just as likely to eat the $3 as they will to plan for a hunt some day. Some will continue buying PP because they feel "pot committed" but I don't think anyone is going to "cash out" of the 1 PP "to make their $3 worth it".

Lastly, everything you read on hunting out west from "serious" hunters says "apply everywhere you can afford" ... the irony is, these are the same people whining about more people applying.

I'll find out if I am eating my words in what, a little more than a week?
Click to expand...

Well said. I think a large number of these new applicants will never actually use their points or ever go on a hunt in Colorado.
 
Very interesting reading about the changes and impact. I have 2 points for CO deer and elk and just hope this is enough to keep ahead of the new wave of applicants. For deer I’ll find out soon I guess.
 
Kiwi said:
Very interesting reading about the changes and impact. I have 2 points for CO deer and elk and just hope this is enough to keep ahead of the new wave of applicants. For deer I’ll find out soon I guess.
Click to expand...

You will keep ahead until draw elk and deer as is a preference point draw. Once you draw, you will have to go to back of line. Then will feel the impact of point creep as try to get another tag for the unit you just drew.
 
Good to hear lopehunter. I have a enough points now in OR, WY, CO and AZ (son) that after I draw the tags I won’t be buying any more points. I’m just happy I started buying points when I did and I only go for the draws that take 2 points max.
 
what i feel is that if you really wanted to hunt you would've already been applying. at the end of the day the whole goal is to draw a tag and if you draw said tag you have to pay what you previously had to front.. i don't know if people just aren't that smart or they think its different somehow but its a crappy situation. CPW was spending too much on refunds and the associated over head, but this isn't the answer, obviously. i also think $20 isn't going to be enough either. they need to make it something steeper i my opinion
 
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