Poaching Rates: Any Guesses

Curious what folks here think the prevalence of poaching is in the areas you frequent?

A half-hour of searching on my part didn't yield much in terms of data, but that's no surprise given how poaching typically occurs. I did find this article, from 2010 in Oregon:

State biologists recently discovered a shocking level of poaching while conducting a mule deer distribution study in central Oregon south of Bend.

"If we look at the illegal take, it's basically equal to the legal take -- it's bad," says Michelle Dennehy, a Fish and Wildlife spokeswoman in Salem. "Poaching is not ethical, it's not hunting."

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I have found poached animals many times in the hills where I grew up. This year alone, having only done a little hiking, I have found a few suspicious carcasses. Due to access and degradation of what I have found, I haven't contacted FWP. It's just a hunch. In 25 years of hunting, I have run into a warden once, and that was in an area 70 miles south of where 90% of my hunting takes place. It would be interesting if they planted microchips on a sample of a population of deer and elk like they do on dogs, that were imperceptible to poachers, so that some reliable statistics could be derived. But I'm not sure how they would do that with taxpayer dollars without folks knowing anyway.

I just have this strong suspicion that in the district I live in south of Helena, MT, illegal take is prevalent as hell. Just one ruinous bastard could get away with so much. Anyone else have hunches or thoughts on poaching where they hunt?

Based on the stories I hear and the unethical behavior I see when people see a herd of elk out in the open I'd wager poaching to have a similar harvest rate. Coworker found a fresh dead cow elk last week that looked relatively healthy. We haven't heard anything from FWP about it though.

I think there is a lot of poaching that goes on. The Ruth Case, happened in country that I've hunted since I was 12...and I can tell you from experience they aren't the only family from the Seeley area that pull this kind of crap.

A few examples of prolific poaching in Montana...every state has dozens of similar cases. We often don't hear about the less severe cases, mainly because its so common.

• Huntley Poaching Project: In 2006, 17 people, including a teen-aged male and his mother, were charged with illegally killing dozens of deer in Yellowstone, Treasure, and Rosebud counties. Kropp calls it “one of the most blatant examples of poaching I’ve ever seen.” Investigators seized 50 big game heads and antlers from several homes near Huntley. Several defendants, whom one warden called “thrill seekers,” were charged with illegally killing deer, taking only the heads, and leaving carcasses in fields. Says Kropp: “It was wanton waste of the worst kind you could imagine.”

• Operation Cinnabar: Earlier in 2006, a federal judge sentenced Danny McDonald, a commercial poacher from Gardiner, to a year in federal prison and $50,000 in fines and restitution for illegally leading out-of-state hunters to trophy bulls leaving Yellowstone National Park for the Cinnabar Basin. So far, 21 additional people have been fined and had their hunting privileges revoked, and another dozen out-of-state hunters are still under investigation. Game wardens and federal agents have seized 30 elk heads and racks as part of the investigation.

• Mullaney Case: In 2005, a judge ordered Jason Mullaney of Butte to pay more than $23,000 in restitution, perform 1,000 hours of community service during a six-year deferred jail sentence, and give up all hunting privileges in Montana and 20 other states for six years. Mullaney had pled guilty to three felony charges of unlawfully killing 17 deer, five antelope (including a record-book buck), two black bears, and a mountain goat.

• Motarie Case: Gary Motarie of Cut Bank, a self-described antler “addict,” was sentenced in 2004 to 18 months in prison for poaching a huge bull elk off the Sun River Wildlife Management Area. Motarie had killed the animal after having his hunting privileges suspended for 20 years for poaching elk in Lewis and Clark County.

• Ruth Case: In 2003, wardens acting on tips raided a compound near Seeley Lake owned by Dean and Renita Ruth. They seized more than 100 big game mounts and racks, including deer, elk, bear, and moose, along with a rifle silencer and hundreds of photos of the couple’s clients posing over dead animals. The Ruth poaching ring killed so many deer in the area that FWP biologists later recorded a significant decline in mature buck numbers when conducting annual surveys to set hunting seasons.

The Ruths were charged with 12 felony counts of poaching in Montana, as well as numerous poaching charges in Pennsylvania. In 2004, a federal judge sentenced Dean Ruth to four months in prison and restricted him from ever owning a firearm again. A Montana district court judge later ordered the couple to pay $19,000 in restitution, revoked Dean Ruth’s hunting privileges for life, and sentenced him to 20 years in prison with 15 years suspended.

Some disturbing examples Buzz. And those are the ones who were caught...

Seeley Lake area had a big poaching ring bust. I believe it is still heavy there as well as Lincoln and Sanders County.

IMO, communities with a slanted Anti Govt mentality grasp *laws they may get away with breaking and justify their actions. Self sufficient is a branding desired by the doomsday interested people. MT, ID hold various groups of this sort and simpathizers of this sort. Poaching - not viewed as poaching... It is rationalized to justify their actions and vocally opposed by only a few... And the few brand themselves. This embolds the poachers further.

I've found, typically enjoying a breakfast at the dining counter of various areas... The bragging of such actions. Thus, in areas within large swaths of forests...

There is flat out not near the funding for enforcement. This heightens the anti govt personalities and what better than self sustenance to rationalize their act.

Edit: Just saw Buzz's post. And those are the few groups caught.
Those are some ugly situations... Yeesh!

Nameless Range said:

Some disturbing examples Buzz. And those are the ones who were caught...

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It’s a very difficult metric to estimate. Anyone who is remotely careful about when and where they do it would be very difficult to catch. Kelly Frank, who poached a state record mule deer, used a .22 Hornet and did his dirty work alone. It’s hard to say how many animals he killed that he never got caught for.

An old stat I read agreed that poaching kills about equal legal kills. Meaning every poacher we bust means more tags for legal hunters.

Here in the east, where every person who buys a big game license gets 6 deer tags, and in some cases I believe can buy more doe tags, we still have problems. I know of lots of times where deer are never reported, spotlighted, shot off others land, and other illegal manners of take. Its frustrating for me, but there is a big portion of our hunting population that don't trust and don't care about our Wildlife commission.

I had an Idaho game warden tell me that they estimated only 1:4 trophy mule deer, which they classified as greater than 24", killed in his Idaho Falls region was killed legally. In other words, 75% were poached or otherwise illegally gotten.

Poaching rates would be expected to increase based on miles of vehicular roadway per acre in a unit. I am sure some criminals kill and drive away but most criminals will steal the meat and/or antlers. Criminals are not always ultra-nmarathoners so they want a truck nearby the kill site to load up the stolen meat and antlers. Much like residential thefts, criminals prefer easy access with multiple exit routes in case someone else arrives during the criminal act.

I grew up in a rural area in the Midwest though our region was 95% private land so trespassers were dealt with even if out for a bumbling hike. Stupidity and bad navigational skills is not the landowner's problem. Poaching animals, fish, ginseng, morels, tools, etc, off someone else's land was frowned upon in an old school style.

If I was to compare the number of animals shot then recovered legally then compare to other sources of mortality then would presume this: legally shot then recovered animals greatly exceed those lost to wounding or to poaching.

The Idaho observation that 3 of 4 trophy deer (1:3 or 1/4 are 1 in 4) are poached seems high. I would presume the poaching is done while deer are clustered on winter range post-rut if those numbers are accurate.

I will go as far to say that were I grew up in Northwestern PA that there is a poaching rate of 20%. This would be on the low end of my personal assumption. Meaning that 20% (2 our of 10) of the animals killed are poached. Be that either jack-lighted, not tagged, etc etc.

I know I watched a LOT of big bucks over the years disappear without ever knowing where they went....

The introduction of "Early doe muzzleloader" during archery season really put the screws to the big bucks. Guys are shooting them and sticking them with crossbow bolts and broad-heads. ITS A FACT...

Found out that one specific kid the PGC busted had killed 30 bucks one year with the aid of spotlight and a silenced rifle in and around the area I hunted.

Not uncommon to hear rifle shots at 1:00AM - 3:00AM during the rut. Chased a couple of guys jack-lighting near my house the whole way back into Ohio. Reported their license plates. Nothing was done about it.

Surprisingly enough to some of you, the Amish are some of the worst poachers I have ever seen. They seem to thing that "english law" doesn't apply to them.


Its a disaster in NW PA.

Georgia is another epic poaching disaster to be talked about on a different day. Its just plain unruly down here. Guys shooting multiple bucks in a season, using other peoples tags, its rampant.


My faith in the common man is pretty low.

It has always been WAY higher than ever let on where I have lived,CA & NM.
Hell there were organized poaching gangs working with silenced weapons & night vision way back in 90's in CA. G&F aware of it. Some of the interactions with these groups led CADFG to become the full cop show that the FW dept or what is left of it ...tv shows after tweekers & all.

Mention poaching in NM & NM G&F changes the subject or just claims it is coyotes.....just coyotes fault. Maybe cats once in a while.
I quit bothering calling NMG&F about poachers . They just watch me now,& the poachers, the local outlaws they have always been, go their merry way. The non-local ones are cusamer's in the cafe or quickmart....

There is also a lot of animals shot in rural areas. Whitetail or antelope on a pivot or getting in hay stacks. Shooting at night, out of season, etc...

A game warden here in CO told me once he thinks the number of poached animals is equal to the number taken legally. I found a poached deer while i was scouting for turkeys this spring...

As much as I hate to think about it, I believe it happens a lot. My neighbor, the same guy who took to doing wheelies up and down our street on his quad in the early AM until I (then the cops) confronted him, told me last year that he had his girlfriend put his tag on the deer she shot because she’d killed a doe and only he had a doe tag. I don’t even know this guy and he’s telling me that. Made me wonder what other tricks he’d pulled.
I also have a friend who has admitted to jack lighting deer with his buddies when he was a teenager. Just shot them and left them there. He’s ashamed as hell about it now and is trying to make up for it with conservation efforts, but he said they’d done it quite a bit. Really made me question my friendship with the guy.
I know this is all anecdotal, but it’s also stuff people have admitted to me, and with something as secretive as poaching, it leads me to believe that this sort of stuff happens a lot.

Where I live there has been a big drop in poaching from when I was a kid. I remember one rainy night in September I was camped up in the hills and could see five different spot lights going on the river. Back then most of the poaching was done for the meat. There is still a lot of poaching and now most of it is done for the antlers. Every year deer and elk are found now with nothing taken but the heads. That all most never happened in the early 80's

Wow. I'm sort of new to the hunting community and never would of thought poaching is so prevalent as everyone above has described.

Think of all the extra tags that would be available if half the animals weren't going to poachers.

"Curious what folks here think the prevalence of poaching is in the areas you frequent?"

My thoughts are that way more poaching is going on than most would guess. I know lots of people that want to blame habitat loss but in areas that i frequent our habitat is healthy, over abundant, and near uninhabited. Just throwing out a thought i've built on for years, i'd say that we lose near as many deer from poaching, for the trophy but mostly for the meat, as we do from wolf, lion, bear, and yotes combined. All except hunting are year round 24-7 occurrences.

Having been a Warden in the Northeast for 36 years, and worked undercover in both Canada and the US...the poaching rate is scary.

where I'm at in iowa theres a direct link between our popularity on the outdoor channel and some of the troubles we are having. we just busted some guys from Louisiana who drive up here just to poach big bucks.. happens all the time, people can't handle the 4 year wait or are just dirt bag low lives in general