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  1. Default Twin Metals Mining Lease Reinstated Near BWCA

    Just an FYI. Below is an Q and A from sports men for the boundary waters group. (https://www.sportsmenfortheboundarywaters.org/)

    https://www.sportsmenfortheboundaryw...t_q_and_a_.pdf

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    Hopefully these projects go through. Mining in the present isnt the mining of the early 1900's or even 20 years ago. It can be done safely and in a way that doesnt damage the environment.
    Its not like the area cant use some good paying jobs.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by BWALKER77 View Post
    Hopefully these projects go through. Mining in the present isnt the mining of the early 1900's or even 20 years ago. It can be done safely and in a way that doesnt damage the environment.
    Its not like the area cant use some good paying jobs.
    The oil drilling in the gulf seemed to be going smoothly until it went very bad . When mining projects like this go bad they usually result in an environmental disaster that takes years and years to clean up after the mining company closes up and leaves the area in ruins and the jobs gone.
    Also with the clown now in charge of the EPA, more and more environmental regulations are being done away with making it more likely we will have more mining disasters.
    When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money.

    Cree Prophecy

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gr8bawana View Post
    more and more environmental regulations are being done away with making it more likely we will have more mining disasters.
    What EPA regulation that was in place and would have been applicable to this project has been/will be done away with?
    'Hunt a little harder Gomer' - u1299

    ...sound proof phone booths ruin our environment." -gr8bwana

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTGomer View Post
    What EPA regulation that was in place and would have been applicable to this project has been/will be done away with?
    Several regulations are being removed, not implemented, or watered down between the state and federal level. One example is the sulfate standard implemented by the state of Minnesota. I'm not against the development of our natural resources but I would like the true cost of doing so to be applied. The cost to the tax payer, our public lands and our waters. Yes, this may change the viability of these mines to some extent but we owe it to future generations to use restraint. Polymet is almost a non-issue to me but the proposed twin metals is...

    "Defenders of the short-sighted men who in their greed and selfishness will, if permitted, rob our country of half its charm by their reckless extermination of all useful and beautiful wild things sometimes seek to champion them by saying the 'the game belongs to the people.' So it does; and not merely to the people now alive, but to the unborn people. The 'greatest good for the greatest number' applies to the number within the womb of time, compared to which those now alive form but an insignificant fraction. Our duty to the whole, including the unborn generations, bids us restrain an unprincipled present-day minority from wasting the heritage of these unborn generations. The movement for the conservation of wild life and the larger movement for the conservation of all our natural resources are essentially democratic in spirit, purpose, and method." - Theodore Roosevelt
    To what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?

  6. #6

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    I simply struggle to understand how any sportsman could side with a foreign mining company over hunting and fishing habitat and opportunity. The chances that the tailings don't leach sulfuric acid into the groundwater and then into the nearby waterways... in perpetuity, is zero. It'll just be a matter of doesn't it wreck the waters in your life, your kids life, or maybe your great^6 kids lifetime.
    Elitist Hunter

    "Never let schooling [work] get in the way of your education" - Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by neffa3 View Post
    I simply struggle to understand how any sportsman could side with a foreign mining company over hunting and fishing habitat and opportunity. The chances that the tailings don't leach sulfuric acid into the groundwater and then into the nearby waterways... in perpetuity, is zero. It'll just be a matter of doesn't it wreck the waters in your life, your kids life, or maybe your great^6 kids lifetime.
    Stillwater mine here in MT is a great example of mining done right. As is Eagle Mine, in Upper MI where I am from. Eagle is in a similar ore body to the mines being proposed outside the BWCA.
    I would also point out that there are multiple mines located accross the border from MN that arent killing the environment.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTGomer View Post
    What EPA regulation that was in place and would have been applicable to this project has been/will be done away with?
    You simply don't know because you don't want to know.
    I suppose we should just let the current administration and their shady deals made in sound proof phone booths ruin our environment with no regard to the future.
    When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money.

    Cree Prophecy

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gr8bawana View Post
    The oil drilling in the gulf seemed to be going smoothly until it went very bad . When mining projects like this go bad they usually result in an environmental disaster that takes years and years to clean up after the mining company closes up and leaves the area in ruins and the jobs gone.
    Also with the clown now in charge of the EPA, more and more environmental regulations are being done away with making it more likely we will have more mining disasters.
    Mining and drilling for oil are two very different things.
    "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."

    -Theodore Roosevelt

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gr8bawana View Post
    You simply don't know because you don't want to know.
    I suppose we should just let the current administration and their shady deals made in sound proof phone booths ruin our environment with no regard to the future.
    Just answer the question, grandpa.
    'Hunt a little harder Gomer' - u1299

    ...sound proof phone booths ruin our environment." -gr8bwana

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by BWALKER77 View Post
    Stillwater mine here in MT is a great example of mining done right. As is Eagle Mine, in Upper MI where I am from. Eagle is in a similar ore body to the mines being proposed outside the BWCA.
    I would also point out that there are multiple mines located accross the border from MN that arent killing the environment.
    ...for now, just wait.
    Elitist Hunter

    "Never let schooling [work] get in the way of your education" - Mark Twain

  12. #12

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    That's like a smoker saying it hasn't killed me yet...
    Elitist Hunter

    "Never let schooling [work] get in the way of your education" - Mark Twain

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    Its really not if your a knowledgeable about the techniques employed, mine plans, etc.

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    Having been to the boundary waters multiple times I don't believe its worth the risk to that watershed. You know the saying S* flows down hill, well the BWCA is down hill from those mining leases. I agree if done right mining is something that is required and should be done but this is the wrong mine in the wrong place.

  15. #15

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    It seems selfish to jeopardize a place like the BWCA for all future generations to benefit a very tiny handful of people of our generation. I have very little sympathy for the people up there complaining about jobs when 3 hours south anyone with a pulse can find a decent paying job if they are willing to show up to work every day. We'd all love to live up there but it is hard to make a living. If you want to live up there you need to take the bad with the good.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by BWALKER77 View Post
    Its really not if your a knowledgeable about the techniques employed, mine plans, etc.
    it is if you look at the big picture. There's not a mine out there what will manage it's waste in perpetuity. If human error doesn't cause the problem Ole Ma Nature will ensure something beyond the design points. As a geologist I tend to think about the long haul. I mean the current Stillwater mine is still a newbie, while someone's been poking around the area since the 1880's the real development didn't occur until the late 60's. Wait another 100 years or 200 years and let's see how good their record is.
    Elitist Hunter

    "Never let schooling [work] get in the way of your education" - Mark Twain

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    As an environmental scientest I think about the long term as well. As a miner I am aware of new techniques being used to mitigate AMD.
    As a geologist you should know that the sulfide content of the rock is whats key. I havent studied the Twin metals project in detail, but I would bet the sulfide content is pretty low. Much Like Eagles.
    Last edited by BWALKER77; 05-08-2018 at 08:35 PM.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by neffa3 View Post
    it is if you look at the big picture. There's not a mine out there what will manage it's waste in perpetuity. If human error doesn't cause the problem Ole Ma Nature will ensure something beyond the design points. As a geologist I tend to think about the long haul. I mean the current Stillwater mine is still a newbie, while someone's been poking around the area since the 1880's the real development didn't occur until the late 60's. Wait another 100 years or 200 years and let's see how good their record is.
    The metals produced at Stillwater and the way they are used are one of the greatest environmental gifts of our time. I’d challenge you to name an employer anywhere in the region that has a ‘greener’ impact.
    If it was not for palladium in catalytic converters where would air quality in our country be? I don’t know about you, but I like the Clean Air Act, and the fact that every vehicle produced in modern times must and is able to comply with it.

    Also, the rock at Stillwater is pretty benign. It’s not a copper mine. It doesn’t produce acidic drainage. Nitrates from blasting agents are what needs to be treated, and they are in the water treatment process before being sent to tailings, into an impoundment that captures all surface runoff from rain storms and puts it back into the lined pond.
    They are permitted to discharge far below EPA limits yet discharge a fraction of their permit. East Boulder is a zero discharge operation.

    Even if, God forbid the impossible happened and there was somehow a failure, there simply isn’t the chemical composition in the ore to cause a long term environmental disaster like you’d see with a high sulfide mine.

    If you’ve been to either site, you’d see the continuous reclamation, which is what the whole site will someday look like.


    Also, there was a large scale chromium mine just up the hill from Stillwater in WWII( not the 60s), to supply the war effort.

    Stillwater is also in a legally binding good neighbor agreement with local residents represented by the Northern Plains Resource Council.

    They also pay millions in tax to the two counties they operate in and pay ~1100 union workers an average 129k annually.

    Ryan Zinke claims to be a geologist too......


    What about bwana? Why isn’t two days enough to answer a simple question?
    'Hunt a little harder Gomer' - u1299

    ...sound proof phone booths ruin our environment." -gr8bwana

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    MT Gomer is spot on.
    I woukd add there is nothing inherently bad about copper mines. The Kewanaw peninsula of littered with hundreds of them and most were pre ww2. They dont have acid mine drainage issues.
    Its also worth noting that Eagle, the Kewanaw mines and Twin metals lay in the same band of mineralization.

  20. #20

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    Someone asked if anyone's mind had changed over controversial topics. Typically I'm on one or the other side. In this case, and the prior thread on this subject, the information shared is very informative. Weed out the extremes and objective details begin to stand out.

    Great post, MTGomer. It provokes real thought. MTGomer as well as others in this thread and the prior have been really valuable.
    Live to work or work to live... Your choice

    Rockin' HT's 2017 MLB Champion - Hall of Famer. Giving Pete Rose a run for his $$$

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTGomer View Post
    The metals produced at Stillwater and the way they are used are one of the greatest environmental gifts of our time. I’d challenge you to name an employer anywhere in the region that has a ‘greener’ impact.
    If it was not for palladium in catalytic converters where would air quality in our country be? I don’t know about you, but I like the Clean Air Act, and the fact that every vehicle produced in modern times must and is able to comply with it.

    Also, the rock at Stillwater is pretty benign. It’s not a copper mine. It doesn’t produce acidic drainage. Nitrates from blasting agents are what needs to be treated, and they are in the water treatment process before being sent to tailings, into an impoundment that captures all surface runoff from rain storms and puts it back into the lined pond.
    They are permitted to discharge far below EPA limits yet discharge a fraction of their permit. East Boulder is a zero discharge operation.

    Even if, God forbid the impossible happened and there was somehow a failure, there simply isn’t the chemical composition in the ore to cause a long term environmental disaster like you’d see with a high sulfide mine.

    If you’ve been to either site, you’d see the continuous reclamation, which is what the whole site will someday look like.


    Also, there was a large scale chromium mine just up the hill from Stillwater in WWII( not the 60s), to supply the war effort.

    Stillwater is also in a legally binding good neighbor agreement with local residents represented by the Northern Plains Resource Council.

    They also pay millions in tax to the two counties they operate in and pay ~1100 union workers an average 129k annually.

    Ryan Zinke claims to be a geologist too......


    What about bwana? Why isn’t two days enough to answer a simple question?
    All mines are great while they're economically feasible. I, in no way, stated anything contrary to that. But in the grand scheme, they will all fail. Maybe you won't be around, or maybe your kids, or maybe in your mind when it fails there will be bigger issues. I don't give two hoots how much they pay in taxes or how great they pay their workers. None of that was relevant to the point. All mines will have a negative impact, that is the point, all engineering controls will fail with time. It's the same with all engineering, it all has a lifespan. And yes I have been to stillwater, I'm a geologist, I know that everyone and their puppy dog points to stillwater as the model for doing it "right". I just don't buy the scale at which that determination is made.
    Elitist Hunter

    "Never let schooling [work] get in the way of your education" - Mark Twain

  22. #22
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    What will this utopia without mining look like? I've often wondered this. If we can't mine with the least impact practical, we shouldn't mine at all? What will our society look like?

    Here is a discharge of some highly toxic water, with god knows what for metals leaching. SAD. I've walked the entire 6 miles of it, there is zero form of life in this stream.
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTGomer View Post
    Just answer the question, grandpa.
    The list is too long and would require some comprehension on your part so just keep your head buried in the sand and keep telling yourself it's all good.

    Quote Originally Posted by neffa3 View Post
    That's like a smoker saying it hasn't killed me yet...
    Last edited by Gr8bawana; 05-10-2018 at 03:24 PM.
    When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money.

    Cree Prophecy

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gr8bawana View Post
    The list is too long and would require some comprehension on your part so just keep your head buried in the sand and keep telling yourself it's all good.
    Iím all about being informed and hearing your perspective. Thanks for contributing with such great value, like you always do. All of your posts are so informative, full of facts and lacking of emotional drivel.
    'Hunt a little harder Gomer' - u1299

    ...sound proof phone booths ruin our environment." -gr8bwana

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by neffa3 View Post
    All mines will have a negative impact,
    Considering that every automobile engine’s exhaust from the past several decades is made cleaner with a catylitic converter, I think the impact has been overwhelmingly positive to a level that can never be offset. I bet ole bawaner can remember in person what you and I have only seen pictures of.. pre Clean Air Act smog. Imagine what the air would be like with today’s automobile numbers on the road.
    'Hunt a little harder Gomer' - u1299

    ...sound proof phone booths ruin our environment." -gr8bwana

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