Montana Master Hunter Program

Just wondering if anyone else on here applied or was accepted into this. I'll be part of the first class.

http://mtmasterhunter.com/

A bit late for this year though upcoming, $200, not bad. Good to see land owners come together for Montana.

George Bettas did a presentation on this program at the MT WSF fundraiser. Sounded like a great idea. I might apply in a couple years when I have more free time. Let us know how you like the program.

It looks like a a really well put together program. One Montana deserves a ton of credit for continuing to work on this issue over the last few years in a quiet & thoughtful fashion. The amount of buy-in from the landowner & hunting community is huge. Let us know how it goes, 406. Very interested in the outcomes.

Looks like a really cool program - I will definitely look into this for next year.

I wanted to apply this year but I had several prior commitments that conflicted with the class schedule. Hopefully next year will work out.

If I lived in Bozeman. Pretty limited for anyone else.

I'm interested in your feedback on the program also. I looked into it and was curious about it.

Ben Lamb said:

The amount of buy-in from the landowner & hunting community is huge.

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Any idea how many landowners have signed up to allow free access to the graduates?

TBass said:

Any idea how many landowners have signed up to allow free access to the graduates?

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This says 1/2 dozen now, with the hopes of getting upwards of 20-30 before the season starts. With most Ag groups supporting, I think they should be able to come close to that.

http://prairiepopulist.org/mastering-the-hunt-for-better-access/

Does anyone think this will have an adverse effect on keeping Block Management properties enrolled going forward? I'm not sure what financial incentives the landowners have under this program, but if all else equal why wouldn't landowners choose this over BM every time? I think the program has great intentions, but just hope it doesn't backfire in this sense.

Sioux33 said:

Does anyone think this will have an adverse effect on keeping Block Management properties enrolled going forward? I'm not sure what financial incentives the landowners have under this program, but if all else equal why wouldn't landowners choose this over BM every time? I think the program has great intentions, but just hope it doesn't backfire in this sense.

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I don't think it will affect the overall acreage in Block Management, but it does have the possibility of adding more acreage from landowners for whom Block wasn't a good fit. The folks who have been working on it for the last few years are all big supporters of Block, and I know this was part of their deliberations. There's no money exchanged in this program and is all voluntary, as I understand it.

Thank you for the link.

This looks more high maintenance for landowners than BM, and for properties with a lot of acreage, BM would likely pay quite a bit more. I think it's potentially a good program, and makes a lot of sense, but once a lot of people get signed up and the sorting starts it will most likely revert back to a "friends and family" program, or an under the counter outfitting scheme. There are private outfitters involved, do you really think they will help average hunters gain affordable access to worthwhile private land? That would be directly contrary to their interests. Not saying anything against outfitters, but why would anyone work at something that will impair their livelihood? There are certain names to look for on the list; long-time residents will know who they are better than I. As soon as you see those landowners on the list you know it's bogus. I didn't look at the list of landowners participating, but I assume it's all good people really trying to make things better at this point. The vultures come out later.

The program claims to be a way for "skilled, thoughtful hunters" to gain access to private land, but the class schedule includes a two-day trip to teach students "to safely and effectively shoot their rifles at various distances ". Really? I would have thought that anyone with at least five years of big game hunting experience who still doesn't know how to safely and effectively shoot his rifle at various distances is neither skilled or thoughtful. There is also "certification of each students personal “maximum effective range” for their preferred weapon". The first time they certify someone for over 500 yards in a game situation, there's a big red "FRAUD" stamp on the entire program. The last thing we need is more bozos blazing away at half a mile, even if it is on exclusive private land.

I know this sounds like very negative stuff, but it's really not. I would LOVE to see a program like this succeed. Even though I'll never be able to afford to shell out $200 (plus "nominal daily access fees") for possible access to select private land, the existence of such a program doing exactly what it claims to intend would be a refreshing ray of hope for humanity. I can't seem to remember where I put my faith in humanity; I haven't had any for decades. I have often thought there should be a program like this that would certify hunters so landowners would have some way of knowing who they were allowing on their land. Of course, I'd rather see it done on a wider scale, and more affordably, but that would make it harder to get going. I really, really hope it doesn't turn into a way for a few uber-wealthy landowners to exclude everyone but a select few while claiming to be good guys (kinda like some Type II BMAs). I'll certainly be watching from way over here on the public land and truly hoping that it works out well for everyone.

People have been doing this in the south for quite a while now. I remember listening to a Cody Rich podcast that had a couple guys that belong to a group that does something very similar. They often use processed meat as part of the compensation for being able to use the land. I think it's a great idea, and don't see it as some nefarious operation the way you seem to, scubohuntr.

The term "Master" is a bit much I think. mtmuley

Yellowstoner said:

People have been doing this in the south for quite a while now. I remember listening to a Cody Rich podcast that had a couple guys that belong to a group that does something very similar. They often use processed meat as part of the compensation for being able to use the land. I think it's a great idea, and don't see it as some nefarious operation the way you seem to, scubohuntr.

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I don’t think it’s a nefarious operation at all. I think it’s a great idea that will most likely be hijacked by nefarious people.

Any update on this?

TBass said:

Any update on this?

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Short answer is yes. Here are some rough thoughts from the class:
Abstract: This past weekend we completed the class and I wanted to offer a condensed version of a review for those who might be thinking about it next offering (prob spring 2019). For those who are unfamiliar, the idea is to provided continuing education to hunters and help them to discover new tools and sharpen the ones they already have. An added bonus is to utilize these graduates as vetted hunters to help control game populations on ranches that might have struggled with public pressure in the past or just not know where to go to find people who will respect their land and work.
The Name: Some might be turned off calling it the "Master Hunter" program. Personally, I didn't sign up to have some one call me a master hunter, or that I thought that I was one. Program needs a name, and this one works fine. Other states have programs with the same title. It was also called Advanced Hunter Education in places, but that again might be problematic.
Content:
This has to be broken down into a few categories.
Personalities:
George Bettas, the director of the class is an outstanding choice. He has served as the CEO of B&C, on too many boards to name, and been influential in the hunting community and Montana in particular for longer than many of us have been chasing animals. He is thoroughly knowledgeable, self-deprecating and humble, and usually has a funny anecdote to share that makes you not mind getting late out of class. He has an answer for most, things, simply because he has experienced most things. He has seen the landscapes change, the players at the table rotate, and been around long enough to watch the history of hunting evolve. Frankly, I don't know who could be more qualified to lead the inaugural class.

Zach Brown: Zach is a young guy from Bozeman and has a mannerism hat defies his age. He is affable (it was nearly the last week of the class before I realized we were on opposite sides of the political spectrum) and he is eager to listen. He accepted unsolicited feedback from me on the first class and engaged with me on questions that were difficult. He clearly wants this program to succeed, thrive and grow and is willing to lay aside any agenda he might have to pursue this. He may be a politician, but he is one a sportsman can like.
Land Owner’s Panel: Several land owners of large ranches took time to speak with us. We learned the different operations they ran and what struggles they endured to continue to operate. We were able to see the other side of the fence that goes beyond a name on a property deed. This genesis of cooperation between landowner and hunters wishing to utilize their land is greatly needed in Montana. As with anything that has opposing sides (which is really not the case in this discussion, and never needs to be) myths needed to be dispelled and understanding granted.
Jim Posewitz: Jim is a Montana Conservation Legacy. If there is anyone who hunts, fishes, or recreates in Montana it is not an exaggeration to say they owe Jim no small amount of gratitude. Coming up in hunter’s education we read his book on fair chase. Reading his newly released autobiography we see how he was a warrior for Montana’s lands and animals.

Instructors: Each person who presented their material was a bona fide expert in their field. A 30 year veteran of MTFWP spoke on game laws, a developer at Mystery Ranch taught on packs and design, a professor at U of M gave us the history of conservation. The materials presented to us were made available after each class and each instructor made themselves available for followup afterwards. They were passionate about their fields and eager to increase the knowledge of each of us.
Setting: Aside from the last weekend (see below), we met in hotel conference rooms. Every class had more content than we allotted time. This was mainly because the class engaged the instructors, diving deeply into subjects that were vital to the vision of the class. The instructors were gracious to us in allowing this, but eager to help us to understand nuances that otherwise would go undiscovered. Every topic felt like drinking from a firehose, but this is to be expected interacting with experts on their subject and everyone’s willingness to get as much as possible from them. None of these were negatives. If anything, it helped each of us (average hunters) to know just how much more there is out there for us to pursue on our own. Prior to each class was homework of some type, usually reading papers and positions statements on what would be covered the following week.
Topics Covered: history of conservation; Montana conversation and game law; interaction with land owners; hunting techniques; technology within hunting; gear selection; shooting instruction; ethics development; wildlife management; ecology and biology; bear interactions; BMA; Public Land Private Wildlife Council; finding animals; e-scouting.
The Class: From a pool of nearly 200 came 30 hunters. They varied from early 20’s to much past that. While many were from Bozeman area, one came from Whitefish, several from Missoula, and a handful from Billings. Ladies represented about 10% of the class. We had hunters who had just gotten into the tradition, most who hunted each year and usually were successful on a deer or elk, and a few hunted multiple states and spent weeks in the field. It was clear that each was there to learn and engage to make themselves a more effective hunter. The usually braggadocio that is usually found, unfortunately, in a group of hunters was absent. There was no comparison of record book scores; there was no one-upmanship; there was no need to prove that you had earned a title similar to “master hunter”. Instead, there was honest and humble introspection to our hunting community and a desire to see this program be the clarion call to the rest of our state for a need to better represent each other. I feel confident in saying that if you were to hunt with a graduate of this program, you would find a highly ethical and deeply knowledgeable sportsman who would do whatever it takes to ensure the reverence of an animal is maintained and the integrity of our tradition is untarnished.
The Future of the Program: The Montana Master Hunter Program answers to questions that grow more important with the passion of each season: First, how do we stop the loss of access to hunting areas (public and private)? Secondly, what can be done to raise the level of hunters that enhances our standing in the public’s perception? If neither have a solution, then what fills our freezers and teaches us skills that TR would say can be found no where else, will certainly be no more than a memory. This should cause each of us as pursuers of wild things to think about being a part of this class ( or finding ways to be more engaged). I would also hope that those professionals and companies that value the future of Montana conservation would also find a way to be involved.


I would also add that the only negative critcisms I have heard have been from those outside the class commenting on the name "Master Hunter" or their thinking that it is a measuring contest of some kind. This is very far from the vision and execution of the class. If you approach it more as Advanced Hunter Education or Hunter Ed 2.0, you have a much better idea. Personally, I don't think the name will keep out the right people, but it will probably exclude those who won't look past that to the content. And I'd say that hits the target audience.

Great to see a significant devotion to the program! Detail, condensed or not... Thank you your time documenting your account. More rigorous than initially perceived. Great review.

Thanks again.