Any engineer/fabricator input? Hay bale loader build

Building a 4x4x8 hay transport trailer for a UTV.

I'm at the point of building the sleeves for the wheel spindles and have a load integrity question.

I want the load in front of the axle ---> towards the trailer tongue. A 3x3x8 &/or 4x4x8 bale of hay... 800 lbs - 1600 lbs.

In the drawing, this is what I intend to build for axle/spindle location instead of running the wheels off the direct end of the square tubing which I know would be the most ideal however, to account for keeping the weight of the bale in front of the axle, I would like to modify the wheel location, as shown.

Intent for transport:
The forks and backing are hinged to the tube steel. A manual winch mounted to the front area of the trailer (towards tongue). The winch will pull the backer/forks to rest on a "T" platform mounted 4' from the steel junction. The bale will transport = the height of the center of the wheel location. It's hard to describe though I think you may have an understanding...

Basically, will the design to mount a short "axle" for the wheel spindles hold the integrity for transporting bales?

Steel used for trailer:
2x2" Square tubing .25 thickness - trailer build.
3" C Channel .25 thickness - trailer bracing & forks.
1x3" Tube .125 thickness - backer frame.
Wheel hub kit: 1250 lbs ea.
Tires: 225 75/R15

This is the general ideal: Credit for use of the picture - http://gobobpipe.com/poke-n-tote-hay-trailer.htm


Very basic drawing:


Build thus far - exclude the tires in this picture.


Pic of current tire selection, wheel hub assembly and spindle kits.


Thanks for your input. I know my design is a bit overkill for steel thickness, etc... kinda a tank build for a go-kart intent... but easy pull for a UTV. so the stronger the better... it's the wheel location and weight distribution that I want to make sure is good before proceeding further.

I have no specific info to assist you but a buddy of mine was carrying a load of chat gravel in a suitable trailer pulled behind his small Datsun truck. All was peachy keen until crested a hill on a gravel road and needed to apply the brakes due to an upcoming curve. The weight shifted in the trailer relative to the truck and the front wheels of the truck rose so no steering capability then went through the curve crashing and spilling the load of gravel. Damage mostly to pride.

Definitely a concern if the load point would be to far forward on the trailer. Hills would spook my interest... This would be for transport on a reasonably level farm/ranch setting...

Here is an example of a round transport. My setup would work for both though the "customer's" intent is for 4x4x8 bales.

[video=youtube_share;rs_KwEX6XZ4]https://youtu.be/rs_KwEX6XZ4[/video]

Some of these videos have me questioning whether the weight would hold enough over the straight axle point to not lose rear UTV tire traction... Fine line or over thinking this...?

LopeHunter said:

I have no specific info to assist you but a buddy of mine was carrying a load of chat gravel in a suitable trailer pulled behind his small Datsun truck. All was peachy keen until crested a hill on a gravel road and needed to apply the brakes due to an upcoming curve. The weight shifted in the trailer relative to the truck and the front wheels of the truck rose so no steering capability then went through the curve crashing and spilling the load of gravel. Damage mostly to pride.

Click to expand...

Had that happen to me - sort of. I was helping a guy move combines from one farm to another. On gravel road, we came to a rise and a rather steep down hill to a creek bottom. Rear wheel steering on the combines. Fortunately I waited at the top for a few seconds to give him some space. As we descended I needed to hit the brakes to make the curve. We had heavy heads on the front, so weight transfer started to take the back wheels, the steering wheels off the ground. Curve at the bottom.
I hit the gas at the last moment to set the back end down and managed to make the curve with his half million dollar combine without rear ending him. Ha

I personally would be worried about the back of the utv lifting off the ground while cranking/lifting 4x4x8 of hay. Keeping in mind that the video you posted is of a very light straw bail.(see how he can tilt it by hand so easily to off load). This says two things one the bail is light and two it is at it's Ballance point (not much tongue weight).
As someone who has fabed a lot of ag equipment I'd try to do two things
1. I would make the trailer tongue as long as reasonably possible.
This will give the utvs weight leverage against the weight of the bail while lifting.
2. I would allow the bail to pivot past it's "Ballance" point when loaded shifting it's weight on to the utvs hitch.(aim for 10-20% of gross trailer weight)
This creates the problem of re shifting the weight to unload the bail To fix that install some type of simple lever you can pull giving you a mechanical advantage over the weight of the bail.

I've always been told the axle on the trailer should be 1 inch offset toward the rear of the trailer for every foot of trailer length. 12 ft trailer you would put your axle at the 7ft mark. This gives you the 10-20% of the trailer weight on the tongue mentioned above.

I’d be a little nervous about that with a 4x4x8 bale, I bought some straw bales that size and it’s pretty tricky moving them with my S205 Bobcat, they’ve got to be all of 1600(+) lbs. A bale of grass or alfalfa will be considerably heavier.

What ever you do just make sure you film it when trying first time....

For the intent to identify the weight distribution and the degree a "perfect equal weighted bale" on flat level ground would present;

How about the math portion... Say a 4x4x8 weighs 1500lbs. If it sits at a 45* position with the base point of the bale approx 6" away from the center point of the axle (at a 45* angle)...
How many pounds would be over the axle point, trailer side or either side of that axle point?

This is based off a straight axle vs the original drawing.

Thanks.

What is the towing capability of the utv? My dad has a gator and I wouldn't dream of that much weight behind it. I know you said it wasn't very steep but thats a concern even for stopping. I think I like the idea of the long tongue to prevent jacknifing and to make backing up easier. I'm not sure what it would cost but is there any way to have a breaking system on it? I think you're a bit low on the weight of a bale. Good grass hay or alfalfa would be closer to a ton.

I would never pull a full sized roundbale behind a UTV. Asking for issues.

Mallardsx2 said:

I would never pull a full sized roundbale behind a UTV. Asking for issues.

Click to expand...

It is surprising the market for such hauler trailers... Incredibly a big portion of that market is for ATV's! Go figure...
https://www.fresh-group.com/atv-bale-trailer.html
https://ironbaltic.com/us/agricultural/bale-trailers
http://fasthaymovers.com/
Does it make it safe? Meh, to each his/her own... I had not thought about it until approached to weld one up... Then google away for an understanding... Pretty amazing.

A UTV.. is not my cup of tea though I believe on level farm /ranch ground with appropriate weight distribution, I would be okay with it however, I'm a hands on small bale person. Someone wants it and I like to weld/fabricate.

Sytes said:

For the intent to identify the weight distribution and the degree a "perfect equal weighted bale" on flat level ground would present;

How about the math portion... Say a 4x4x8 weighs 1500lbs. If it sits at a 45* position with the base point of the bale approx 6" away from the center point of the axle (at a 45* angle)...
How many pounds would be over the axle point, trailer side or either side of that axle point?

This is based off a straight axle vs the original drawing.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Maybe an engineer on here could do the calculation? If it were me, i'd weigh the bale. Then I would hook a chain around the front loader of a tractor and chain to the portion of the trailer that tilts with a spring scale in between and simply lower the bale with the tractor front loader until the scale reads a 10%-20% of the bale weight. Once you have that, you know how far the bale needs to lean back and weld your stops.

A few odds and ends such as the winch cable and I'll be on my way to bear camp... A bit OCD'ish as there is always more to improve... Next week I drop it off and post a video of the UTV rear or front hoisted...

FWIW - if it tipped back on to 4 wheels on 2 axis instead of 2 wheels on 1 axis you would reduce a lot of force (up or down) on the back end of your ATV.