140 or 160? Now accepting advice.

Dougfirtree · Mar 26, 2018

A very first-world reloading dilemma: I've been on the hunt for a universal load for my 7mm-08; something that will work as well on a whitetail at 50 yards, as it will on an elk at 350; one load to rule them all... I started with the idea of an all-copper bullet, but had no luck finding accuracy with either the 140 ttsx, or the 145 lrx, using several different powders (call me crazy, but I just can't wrap my head around the 120 ttsx, I have a prejudice against small bullets moving really fast). I decided to try the 140 accubond instead and recently did testing with both Big Game and RL 17. Neither produced an accurate load. I do have an accurate load for this rifle that uses a 160 grain accubond at about 2500 fps, using IMR 4350. I liked that load, but always felt that ideally, it would move just a bit faster. That load was developed at 2.8" and I'm curious what would happen if I played with lengthening that a bit. Or, lengthening it and trying a different powder, like H 4350. With money not growing on trees, which option would you go for next?

1. Order some more 140 accubonds and try Varget, IMR 4350 or H 4350 (Of those, I only have IMR 4350 at the moment).

Or...

2. Order some more 160 accubonds and play with longer OAL and maybe another powder, or two.

VikingsGuy · Mar 26, 2018

If 140 gn accubonds and TTSX don't like your gun I would try Hornady 139 gn InterBOND, Nosler 140 gn E-tip, 139 gn Hornady GMX, 140 gnBarnes TSX, 140 gn Nosler partition or 150 gn Nosler parition before going to 160 in a 7mm08HT

Rancho Loco · Mar 26, 2018

I would run some blue box federals through it before burning anymore handloads. Try to narrow down why it's acting finicky..

Dougfirtree · Mar 26, 2018

Rancho Loco said:
I would run some blue box federals through it before burning anymore handloads. Try to narrow down why it's acting finicky..

It has always been finicky. The only factory load that it ever liked was Federal Premium's 140 NBT load. I have a few accurate handloads for it, but generally, there will be one charge weight that shoots under an inch and all the others will be more like 3 inches. It's a fussy rifle, but when you find what it likes, will often put those into .75" at 100 yards.

Rancho Loco · Mar 26, 2018

I wouldn't waste any more time reloading for it until I either fixed it's issues or just sent it down the road. Life's too short to deal with temperamental rifles or automobiles.

mtmuley · Mar 26, 2018

Get some Hammers. mtmuley

belly-deep · Mar 26, 2018

Rancho Loco said:
I wouldn't waste any more time reloading for it until I either fixed it's issues or just sent it down the road. Life's too short to deal with temperamental rifles or automobiles.

This.

MThuntr · Mar 26, 2018

I don't have any experience with Hammers so I'll let mtmuley speak for them. It's not like the 7mm-08 is a speed demon so you don't necessarily "need" bonded core or copper bullets so it may be worth expanding your search though Accubonds would be my choice. You mention you have good loads already; why not use those?

I tend to agree with RanchoLoco...if it isn't shooting worth a damn then it's time to cut your losses.

R.P.Coltrane · Mar 26, 2018

I’m working on 150 ABLRs this year, hoping to find that sweet spot. Varget, H380, H414, RL15, RL19 are the contenders. But I always start with Varget for 7-08.

Dougfirtree · Mar 26, 2018

Mthuntr said:
I don't have any experience with Hammers so I'll let mtmuley speak for them. It's not like the 7mm-08 is a speed demon so you don't necessarily "need" bonded core or copper bullets so it may be worth expanding your search though Accubonds would be my choice. You mention you have good loads already; why not use those?

I tend to agree with RanchoLoco...if it isn't shooting worth a damn then it's time to cut your losses.

One of those loads is the 160 accubond. That may be the answer... The other one is using a Speer Hot Cor 145 at about 2650; a great deer load, but I think I'd be nervous about launching one at an elk that was 300 yards away.

Dougfirtree · Mar 26, 2018

R.P.Coltrane said:
I’m working on 150 ABLRs this year, hoping to find that sweet spot. Varget, H380, H414, RL15, RL19 are the contenders. But I always start with Varget for 7-08.

Double Tap made me some loads with that bullet, a few years back, when ammo was scarce. My rifle liked them and I shot a cow elk with one at 200 yards. It performed pretty well.

Don Fischer · Mar 26, 2018

I'm not so sure a 7mm-08 needs a premium bullet. I never eeven shot one but I used a 7x57 a lot, much like the 7mm-08 in a modern action, mine was a Ruger M77. All I shot in it were 154gr Hornady Spire Points, that's what they called them back then. If I wanted a tuffer bullet I can't imagine why. A bullet that worked well for me back then in a 7mm Rem Mag was the 160gr Speer Hot Core. I collected some of them from shooting into newspaper and the core and jacket always stayed together and tight. If I were to go premium, Id go the Hornady Inter Bond. They claim retained weight to 90%, that's terrific. Right now I've taken a short break from Hrnady cup and cores, all I've used for big game for over 40 yrs. I'm working with the 140gr Speer Hot Core on my 6.5x55. Haven't got a thing with it yet that would make me give up the 14ogr Hornady cup and core!

I really thing velocity determine's a lot. To light a bullet with t much speed will blow to fast and ruin lots of meat or fail completely. Over the years I have changed in that light fast I don't need. But a bullet that holds together and fly's a good velocity is fine. Gonna probably get guff for this .u for most the hunting we do, 2700 fps is fine!

mtmuley · Mar 26, 2018

http://longrangehunting.com/threads/hammer-bullets-shoot.200456/ They helped this guy. mtmuley

Brian in Montana · Mar 26, 2018

My 7-08 seems to like a couple different combinations of 140grn Accubonds and Varget.

Somebody else mentioned 139grn Interbonds, I did an exhaustive search for them and came up with nada. I don't know if Hornady is planning to discontinue the interbond in that caliber/weight, but there seem to be none in the world presently.

N2TRKYS · Mar 26, 2018

If your rifle doesn't like 47.5 grains of Big Game, 140 grain Partitions set at 2.80", and WLRM primers, then you should sell it.

huronmtns · Mar 26, 2018

N2TRKYS said:
If your rifle doesn't like 47.5 grains of Big Game, 140 grain Partitions set at 2.80", and WLRM primers, then you should sell it.

Interesting that you say that. I would not give up on the rifle so fast. This past Saturday I did a quick study on what seating depth does to this load.

7mm 08
New Nosler brass
140 grain Nosler Partitions
47.5 gr of Big Game
Barrel length 20.5"
COL as shown.
No other changes. There were two accuracy nodes that were at the longest COL and at 2.814"

This shows how changes in COL affects velocity and barrel harmonics. It also gives an idea why chasing bullet seating depth has an effect on accuracy. It has a similar affect to powder charge changes to velocity.

belly-deep · Mar 26, 2018

huronmtns said:
Interesting that you say that. I would not give up on the rifle so fast. This past Saturday I did a quick study on what seating depth does to this load.

7mm 08
New Nosler brass
140 grain Nosler Partitions
47.5 gr of Big Game
Barrel length 20.5"
COL as shown.
No other changes. There were two accuracy nodes that were at the longest COL and at 2.814"

View attachment 81377

This shows how changes in COL affects velocity and barrel harmonics. It also gives an idea why chasing bullet seating depth has an effect on accuracy. It has a similar affect to powder charge changes to velocity.

That is very interesting. I wish there was data on accompanying pressure. The general rule is pressure = velocity, but pressure also increases as a bullet gets closer to the lands. I don’t doubt your data, but it seems to contradict those two rules.

1_pointer · Mar 27, 2018

belly-deep said:
That is very interesting. I wish there was data on accompanying pressure. The general rule is pressure = velocity, but pressure also increases as a bullet gets closer to the lands. I don’t doubt your data, but it seems to contradict those two rules.

A 57fps difference from high to low, not knowing the sample size, could well be within the expected variation for that load for that rifle.

Dougfirtree · Mar 27, 2018

huronmtns said:
Interesting that you say that. I would not give up on the rifle so fast. This past Saturday I did a quick study on what seating depth does to this load.

7mm 08
New Nosler brass
140 grain Nosler Partitions
47.5 gr of Big Game
Barrel length 20.5"
COL as shown.
No other changes. There were two accuracy nodes that were at the longest COL and at 2.814"

View attachment 81377

This shows how changes in COL affects velocity and barrel harmonics. It also gives an idea why chasing bullet seating depth has an effect on accuracy. It has a similar affect to powder charge changes to velocity.

Huh. I was under the impression that shortening OAL generally lowered velocity... It's funny that you mention the partition. I was just thinking that those blemished 150 partitions are always on sale and in stock. They'd certainly fit the bill... Maybe I'll see if I can find a deal on the 140's too. I do have half a pound of Big Game sitting around now...

MThuntr · Mar 27, 2018

Dougfirtree said:
Huh. I was under the impression that shortening OAL generally lowered velocity... It's funny that you mention the partition. I was just thinking that those blemished 150 partitions are always on sale and in stock. They'd certainly fit the bill... Maybe I'll see if I can find a deal on the 140's too. I do have half a pound of Big Game sitting around now...

Changes in velocity due to seating depth will vary by powder...each has a different burn curve which results in different pressures and velocities. It's hard to not discount the information provided because we have no idea of the sample size which very likely only a few bullets and uses only one double based powder. The effect may be completely different with a single based powder. I suggest loading for your rifle and making changes based on feedback it provides.

140 or 160? Now accepting advice.

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