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Thread: $1,149.84

  1. #126

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    Say residents did have to pay $1,200 for the combo, they would be crazy NOT to spend that money on the tags because you live right there where you hunt. Maybe you residents don’t hunt minutes away from the spots you like to hunt, but I’d bet most of your hunts are usually within a few hours of home. My two trips each season totaled 4,800 miles just getting to where I am hunting. That doesn’t include miles driven while hunting.

    I did the math, and just on tags, fuel and a week’s worth of staying in a motel (I cut costs by spending many nights in the back of the truck or tent) would mean I would have to allocate $235 a month to make my two annual trips. Another big minus is the 5 days wasted driving from my home state to MT and back, when I could use those valuable days actually hunting in a nearby state and not driving.

    $235 a month is a lot when paying rent for a place, utilities, living expenses, car insurance, health insurance, etc. I work hard for my money and I don’t want to spend it like it’s going to rot. I would much rather save it to invest it into real estate so I don’t have to work so damn hard in the future. Hunting is a huge part of my life, but it is not my life. There are other things that are just as, if not more important, than hunting.

    Deer hunting in E. Montana used to be pretty damn good and was definitely worth the money. If you put your time in walking coulees you could usually expect to see a 160 type buck each season, with a chance at a bigger one every two or three years. I have killed only one buck in Montana since 2013; not a very good return for a tag that is $600+. I started hunting deer in other states and since 2014 I’ve killed 5 bucks over 167” for tags that are nearly half the price in areas that are half the distance from home.

    Lastly, I don’t agree with the war Montana has waged on its Elk. While maybe it has only been a slow downward sloping trend, both quality and quantity has taken a bit of a hit as of late. I’ve also seen some damn good Elk while deer hunting the last few years in other easy to draw or OTC states in extremely accessible public land areas. Montana’s vast swaths of private land continue to harbor so many of the Elk in soooo many areas literally making them unavailable for the public hunter. The last few years I’ve seen some really great block management areas stop enrolling in the BM program cutting off even more accessible private land and adjacent public. Really, MT hunting is not heading in a good direction; too bad, because it has soo much potential.

  2. #127

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    I find it interesting that some western hunters feel they are entitled to cheap tags.

    I'm willing to guess the average American hunter makes far less than six figures. I believe the western states have priced 90% of potential NR hunters right out of the game. No responsible person will give priority to a $1000 elk tag over buying groceries, paying bills or saving for college educations.

    Unfortunately, these blue collar folks wont be able to experience western hunting and the greatness of our public lands. These same people don't understand the problems our public lands face, nor will they probably give a rip.

    I see the whole situation as a sad down hill spiral.
    Last edited by cur dog; 03-11-2018 at 04:50 PM. Reason: spelling

  3. #128
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    Lost in all this discussion is the fact that western states aren't necessarily under the obligation to make any tags available to non-residents.

    The reason states do make tags available is because they can charge much higher prices and earn more money to fund the agency. If you get rid of the high costs--or the big difference between R and NR tags--then you get rid of the primary reason resident hunters are okay with allowing NR hunters. As I mentioned in earlier posts, this has all been litigated to the highest levels.

    So although I am very much in favor of nonresidents hunting as many places as they wish--complaining about the price is extremely short-sighted in light of the fact these high prices are the very reason NR opportunities even exist in the first place.
    "Equality in access to Montana elk is not basic to the maintenance or wellbeing of the Union." -US SUPCO

  4. #129

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    Wyoming and Montana residents for example, make up a very tiny portion of the voting public. Washington politicians look at voter numbers. Every NR that's priced out of the game is another vote lost for our public lands.
    This is my opinion. Hopefully, my grandchildren will be able to enjoy the same experiences I have. I don't think looking off into the long term is a bad thing.

  5. #130

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    I was curious if there were any Federal or State legal non resident challenges to State's non resident discriminatory application of hunt/fish regulations.

    A good read for those interested.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...XA67N_xoC7mlPK

    It seems the challenges placed for consideration have yet to overcome prior Federal rulings. Figured it's been challenged.
    Last edited by Sytes; 03-11-2018 at 09:53 PM.
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  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytes View Post
    I was curious if there were any Federal or State legal non resident challenges to State's non resident discriminatory application of hunt/fish regulations.

    A good read for those interested.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...XA67N_xoC7mlPK

    It seems the challenges placed for consideration have yet to overcome prior Federal rulings. Figured it's been challenged.
    It's a good way to blow some money on attorneys. Plenty of cases out there, all of which have pretty much ended in the same result - A hunter who got to pay a law firm a ton of money. It is what happens when you have the 10th Amendment written how it is and interpreted as the courts have, added to the precedents that say non-resident hunting is a privilege rather than a Constitutional Right, and courts ruling that hunting is a recreational activity that is not governed by the many clauses under which cases have been made. As hunting gets more and more commercialized, some of those clauses might become more applicable and the precedents, such as that decided in Baldwin v. Commissioner, may be deemed no longer valid.
    My name is Randy Newberg and I approved this post. What is written is my opinion, and my opinion only.

    "Hunt when you can. You're gonna run outta health before you run outta money."

  7. #132
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    I read the initial response, and thought a waste of money. It was nice that a more informed person agreed.
    Last edited by bobbydean; 03-11-2018 at 11:51 PM. Reason: spelling

  8. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Addicting View Post
    Do you ever wonder if MRS Fin is writing these post to remind MR Fin when he sees it that she hasnít forgotten how much time he is going to owe her walleye fishing this summer!
    You probably know what's really going on here. Haha.

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cur dog View Post
    I find it interesting that some western hunters feel they are entitled to cheap tags.
    Why do they feel entitled....maybe it would be fairer for public lands if NR tag prices remain high...but also raise the prices on the R tags too match. After all the public lands are funded by all of us. That's what public means. Now if you want the state to own and operate the lands, like Utah, then I guess you should be able to charge the R whatever the State settles on as equitable. Right now western residents have it both ways, but the Republicans are working hard to change that...you might have cheap tags but nowhere to hunt in the days ahead unless your uncle is a rich cattle man.mv
    Last edited by ErictheRed; 03-12-2018 at 09:31 PM.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErictheRed View Post
    Why do they feel entitled....maybe it would be fairer for public lands if NR tag prices remain high...but also raise the prices on the R tags too match. After all the public lands are funded by all of us. That's what public means. Now if you want the state to own and operate the lands, like Utah, then I guess you should be able to charge the R whatever the State settles on as equitable. Right now western residents have it both ways, but the Republicans are working hard to change that...you might have cheap tags but nowhere to hunt in the days ahead unless your uncle is a rich cattle man.mv
    You forget the earlier points about what it "costs" us to live in certain states. We already pay in other ways for our licenses. There is no "fair" in giving up salary and opportunity to live in Montana. Just because there are animals on federal public lands does not mean ALL the animals are; 2/3 of MT is private. And just because states have land, does not mean that those are public (See CO). Your "right" to public land does not give you "right" to animals or their management. That would be entitlement.
    "There are no words that can tell the hidden spirit of the wilderness, that can reveal its mystery, its melancholy, and its charm." ~TR

    "He was a mighty hunter before the Lord." ~Genesis 10:9

  11. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by 406LIFE View Post
    You forget the earlier points about what it "costs" us to live in certain states. We already pay in other ways for our licenses. There is no "fair" in giving up salary and opportunity to live in Montana. Just because there are animals on federal public lands does not mean ALL the animals are; 2/3 of MT is private. And just because states have land, does not mean that those are public (See CO). Your "right" to public land does not give you "right" to animals or their management. That would be entitlement.
    Can you show what you mean by you paid for F&G funding by living there and how it compares to other western states? Someone said taxes, I am interested in how much tax you pay funds the wildlife because I ain't buying it. Damn near every state has nonresident tags, some residents pay for the funding, some rely on others to do so.
    Last edited by schmalts; 03-13-2018 at 11:53 AM.
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  12. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by schmalts View Post
    Can you show what you mean by you paid for F&G funding by living there and how it compares to other western states? Someone said taxes, I am interested in how much tax you pay funds the wildlife because I ain't buying it. Damn near every state has nonresident tags, some residents pay for the funding, some rely on others to do so.
    I was thinking the same thing every time I saw this excuse pop into this thread. We all pay dues with the area we live in. Heck I live in an area ( heart of the Appalachian mountains) per capita that is probably as bad as anywhere in this nation for poverty levels. We all pay taxes and last time I checked Montanans get by pretty cheap on taxes.

    But here is the bottom line for every guy that drops out there are two more dummies joining the game. As long as the demand is there nothing will be any different. I can't blame resident's wanting their cake and eating it to for as long as they can. Unfortunately my home state isn't like that we pay what I would consider pretty average for tags. Think my sportsman is a little over $130 a year.

  13. Default

    Feel free to move here and make a living if you want to hunt on the el'cheapo.

  14. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenhorn View Post
    Feel free to move here and make a living if you want to hunt on the el'cheapo.
    I'd love to but not much of an option for me until retirement days. Then you may just see that happen. Now if the wife takes off next week I may just transfer on out. Lol

  15. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenhorn View Post
    Feel free to move here and make a living if you want to hunt on the el'cheapo.
    Ya this.

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by schmalts View Post
    Can you show what you mean by you paid for F&G funding by living there and how it compares to other western states? Someone said taxes, I am interested in how much tax you pay funds the wildlife because I ain't buying it. Damn near every state has nonresident tags, some residents pay for the funding, some rely on others to do so.
    Feel free to not "buy" anything you want, including a NR hunting license in Montana. If you want cheap R licenses, pick up and move to Montana.

    Here's what I know, Resident hunters do many things that you don't as a NR. Each state has a bunch of people that volunteer countless hours attending legislative sessions to support good bills, kill bad ones, and do what's best for wildlife. There are dozens of NGO's in each state that donate a chitload of cash to fund all sorts of wildlife related projects, from collaring studies, to conservation easements, to___________(fill in the blank). Countless hours donated for various on the ground projects that do a lot for wildlife. The list goes on and on and on what Residents do to help hunting, public lands, access, etc. in every State. What about serving on various commissions, committees, task forces, etc. that is all done by Resident Hunters on a volunteer basis?

    I can tell you Pat, that I'll gladly pay for your NR hunting license for deer, elk or pronghorn each year in the state of your choice, if you'll pay just my mileage and hotel rooms for driving all over the State attending meetings on behalf of hunters, public lands, and wildlife. We wont get into the vacation days I spend to make those meetings. Anytime you want...we can work out the details.

    I'm sick and tired of the high pitched whining about how you're doing so much for wildlife and providing "welfare" for Residents. You're getting a screaming deal by simply scribbling a check once a year for the opportunity to hunt...BFD. Plenty of people to take your place that wont cry about it when they do.

    I strongly suggest if you don't like doing the small part you do each year, hang it up and stay home blasting turkeys and whitetails.
    "...the world outside, which my brother and I soon discovered, was full of bastards, the number increasing rapidly the farther one gets from Missoula, Montana." -Norman Maclean

    "They were still so young they hadn't learned to count the odds and to sense they might owe the universe a tragedy"
    -Norman Maclean

  17. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuzzH View Post
    Feel free to not "buy" anything you want, including a NR hunting license in Montana. If you want cheap R licenses, pick up and move to Montana.

    Here's what I know, Resident hunters do many things that you don't as a NR. Each state has a bunch of people that volunteer countless hours attending legislative sessions to support good bills, kill bad ones, and do what's best for wildlife. There are dozens of NGO's in each state that donate a chitload of cash to fund all sorts of wildlife related projects, from collaring studies, to conservation easements, to___________(fill in the blank). Countless hours donated for various on the ground projects that do a lot for wildlife. The list goes on and on and on what Residents do to help hunting, public lands, access, etc. in every State. What about serving on various commissions, committees, task forces, etc. that is all done by Resident Hunters on a volunteer basis?

    I can tell you Pat, that I'll gladly pay for your NR hunting license for deer, elk or pronghorn each year in the state of your choice, if you'll pay just my mileage and hotel rooms for driving all over the State attending meetings on behalf of hunters, public lands, and wildlife. We wont get into the vacation days I spend to make those meetings. Anytime you want...we can work out the details.

    I'm sick and tired of the high pitched whining about how you're doing so much for wildlife and providing "welfare" for Residents. You're getting a screaming deal by simply scribbling a check once a year for the opportunity to hunt...BFD. Plenty of people to take your place that wont cry about it when they do.

    I strongly suggest if you don't like doing the small part you do each year, hang it up and stay home blasting turkeys and whitetails.
    So I take it the I pay taxes question isn't going to get answered. Buzz, I commend you for what you do, but it's hardly the norm. Or an excuse to be a jerk when someone has a different opinion. I haven't bitched once about the tag cost on this thread, my comment was more on the lines of is everyone really funding the wildlife at the residents prices, and the long term effect of pricing out lower income hunters, and that I'm not.
    Last edited by schmalts; 03-13-2018 at 03:49 PM.
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  18. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by schmalts View Post
    So I take it the I pay taxes question isn't going to get answered. Buzz, I commend you for what you do, but it's hardly the norm. Or an excuse to be a jerk when someone has a different opinion. I haven't bitched once about the tag cost on this thread, my comment was more on the lines of is everyone really funding the wildlife at the residents prices, and the long term effect of pricing out lower income hunters, and that I'm not.
    Agreed

  19. Default

    I keep seeing people say they are the states animals, and they get to charge what they want for a license which is fine. So why don’t the people that own the public like national forest charge the state to graze the states animals on it? Ranchers get charged to run livestock. Why doesn’t the state get charged to run their livestock since residents make it very plain that they own the animals?

    Why do the residents of a state get to graze their animals for free then tell a non res you have to pay 10-20x more then me even though the only reason that animal is available to hunt is because of the public land that everyone owns? Not just the residents of that state.

    I don’t really care what states charge. I play the app game in a lot of states and am more then willing to pay the fees. I don’t apply for MT deer or elk because I don’t feel it’s a very good value though.

    I just am tired of seeing the statement that they are the states animals so basically “quit whining and shut up” when the state gets free boarding of their animals.

  20. #145

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    Every NR that's priced out of the game is another vote lost for our public lands. quote

    It is too bad that these people you speak of can see no value in keeping public lands public, besides as a place to hunt. Public lands are so much more than that. From a family that lives in a big city that just wants to pitch a tent and have some smores, or catch a wild fish, or just soak up some peace and quiet, to the person that enjoys a walk in the woods with their dog, to the bird watcher, the horseback rider, or the family that wants to hike to a mountain lake just to see it, public lands hold a value that can not be measured.

    Even if none of the activities mentioned appeal to you today, they may very well sound pretty good in the future.

    I don't think looking off into the long term is a bad thing. Quote I agree.

  21. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuzzH View Post
    Feel free to not "buy" anything you want, including a NR hunting license in Montana. If you want cheap R licenses, pick up and move to Montana.

    Here's what I know, Resident hunters do many things that you don't as a NR. Each state has a bunch of people that volunteer countless hours attending legislative sessions to support good bills, kill bad ones, and do what's best for wildlife. There are dozens of NGO's in each state that donate a chitload of cash to fund all sorts of wildlife related projects, from collaring studies, to conservation easements, to___________(fill in the blank). Countless hours donated for various on the ground projects that do a lot for wildlife. The list goes on and on and on what Residents do to help hunting, public lands, access, etc. in every State. What about serving on various commissions, committees, task forces, etc. that is all done by Resident Hunters on a volunteer basis?

    I can tell you Pat, that I'll gladly pay for your NR hunting license for deer, elk or pronghorn each year in the state of your choice, if you'll pay just my mileage and hotel rooms for driving all over the State attending meetings on behalf of hunters, public lands, and wildlife. We wont get into the vacation days I spend to make those meetings. Anytime you want...we can work out the details.

    I'm sick and tired of the high pitched whining about how you're doing so much for wildlife and providing "welfare" for Residents. You're getting a screaming deal by simply scribbling a check once a year for the opportunity to hunt...BFD. Plenty of people to take your place that wont cry about it when they do.

    I strongly suggest if you don't like doing the small part you do each year, hang it up and stay home blasting turkeys and whitetails.
    Great idea. That’s what I will do. I will also hunt pheasant, quail, and grouse. Good Lord you are nowhere near as important as you think you are. And your opinion is even less meaningless.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtytough View Post
    I keep seeing people say they are the states animals, and they get to charge what they want for a license which is fine. So why don’t the people that own the public like national forest charge the state to graze the states animals on it? Ranchers get charged to run livestock. Why doesn’t the state get charged to run their livestock since residents make it very plain that they own the animals?

    Why do the residents of a state get to graze their animals for free then tell a non res you have to pay 10-20x more then me even though the only reason that animal is available to hunt is because of the public land that everyone owns? Not just the residents of that state.

    I don’t really care what states charge. I play the app game in a lot of states and am more then willing to pay the fees. I don’t apply for MT deer or elk because I don’t feel it’s a very good value though.

    I just am tired of seeing the statement that they are the states animals so basically “quit whining and shut up” when the state gets free boarding of their animals.
    The State doesn't run "livestock" on Federal lands, for starters.

    Secondly, the only way that WILDLIFE can be owned is when its killed and legally tagged with a state issued license or tag. Its held in trust for the Residents of the State it resides in, the state doesn't "own" anything. There's a difference.

    It always leaves me shaking my head at the total lack of basic understanding of how land ownership and control of wildlife have nothing in common.

    Its also fascinating that Bigfin took the time to make this video...and some don't want to educate themselves:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqglAucuZ34

    Good grief...this will answer all of your questions.
    "...the world outside, which my brother and I soon discovered, was full of bastards, the number increasing rapidly the farther one gets from Missoula, Montana." -Norman Maclean

    "They were still so young they hadn't learned to count the odds and to sense they might owe the universe a tragedy"
    -Norman Maclean

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by IsThisHeaven? View Post
    Great idea. That’s what I will do. I will also hunt pheasant, quail, and grouse. Good Lord you are nowhere near as important as you think you are. And your opinion is even less meaningless.
    Maybe, maybe not, but smart enough to know the difference between land ownership and wildlife being held in trust for the State it resides in, and that they are separate issues under the law...listen, watch, learn, and continue with the crying.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqglAucuZ34
    Last edited by BuzzH; 03-13-2018 at 08:46 PM.
    "...the world outside, which my brother and I soon discovered, was full of bastards, the number increasing rapidly the farther one gets from Missoula, Montana." -Norman Maclean

    "They were still so young they hadn't learned to count the odds and to sense they might owe the universe a tragedy"
    -Norman Maclean

  24. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IsThisHeaven? View Post
    Great idea. That’s what I will do. I will also hunt pheasant, quail, and grouse. Good Lord you are nowhere near as important as you think you are. And your opinion is even less meaningless.
    I really don't know what buzz hunts montana since it's no good anywAys he's said 1,000 times .

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8andcounting View Post
    I really don't know what buzz hunts montana since it's no good anywAys he's said 1,000 times .
    What I hunt these days is deer only, until Montana lays off the war they're waging on elk. I could add an elk tag to my half priced NR Native deer combo for $130 and wont do it. If they cared about elk and quit treating them like knapweed, I'd pay an additional grand without batting an eye.

    Honestly, if not for hunting with my Dad, Brother, and 2 nephews who live in Montana, I probably wouldn't even buy the deer tag.
    "...the world outside, which my brother and I soon discovered, was full of bastards, the number increasing rapidly the farther one gets from Missoula, Montana." -Norman Maclean

    "They were still so young they hadn't learned to count the odds and to sense they might owe the universe a tragedy"
    -Norman Maclean

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