Those of you who shoot Barnes bullets...

Dougfirtree · Mar 2, 2018

Two questions for you, if you've got a minute:

1. How many rounds do you put through your barrel before needing to do a full, copper cleaning?

2. What do you consider to be the minimum velocity for good expansion with your bullet? (and which bullet is that?) Personally, I'm tinkering with the .284 140 ttsx.

Thanks!

Flatland Crusoe · Mar 2, 2018

I don't really have an opinion on how often i clean but the impact velocity I would say that 2000 FPS is probably the safe minimum. Some expansion will occur down to 1800 fps, but not a ton. A little more velocity and a lighter bullet is typical for Barnes. They need the speed to open up and they are less dense so even a moderately heavy bullet for diameter will start taking up powder capacity and loosing more velocity.

This impact was at ~2100 fps

As compared to ~3000 fps

Brian in Montana · Mar 2, 2018

Why would a solid copper bullet foul the barrel more than a copper jacketed bullet?

VikingsGuy · Mar 2, 2018

Brian in Montana said:
Why would a solid copper bullet foul the barrel more than a copper jacketed bullet?

Barnes copper bullets are softer than copper alloy shell of traditional bullets. Hornady and Nosler use the alloy in their mono bullets, but some say that hurts expansion. The grooves are meant to lesson the effect by minimizing surface contact.

jryoung · Mar 2, 2018

I use to clean after every outing, but now I seem to clean less and less. I haven't seen much copper fouling in several guns other than a Savage 99 in 358 winchester which seems to be more prone to it.

As for velocity, my ethical range in yards tends to keep me above 2,200 FPS in a variety of chamberings. I'm on the more conservative end so I don't think I'd dip below 2,000fps if I had the option. The bullets here are 145 LRX traveling roughly 2,500 FPS (305 yards).

Dougfirtree · Mar 2, 2018

jryoung said:
I use to clean after every outing, but now I seem to clean less and less. I haven't seen much copper fouling in several guns other than a Savage 99 in 358 winchester which seems to be more prone to it.

As for velocity, my ethical range in yards tends to keep me above 2,200 FPS in a variety of chamberings. I'm on the more conservative end so I don't think I'd dip below 2,000fps if I had the option. The bullets here are 145 LRX traveling roughly 2,500 FPS (305 yards).

View attachment 80710

Thanks. I was really hoping my rifle would like that 145 LRX, but it hated them. Seems to like 140 TTSX's though.

tom338 · Mar 3, 2018

I have one rifle, a 338 win mag that I can shoot 100+ rounds without accuracy issues. I have 3 7mm rem mags and each barrel is different. One about 25 rounds, the other 2 at least 40 before I see accuracy issues and needs to be cleaned. My 260 can handle about 80-90 rounds. As far as speed, I go down to 1800 for expansion but have never recovered a bullet so I can't say for sure. And thats using the TTSX or a LRX bullet

mtmuley · Mar 3, 2018

Had a bad fouling problem with the 225 TTSX in a .338 RUM. Was pushing them pretty hard. Soured me on Barnes. mtmuley

Bulldog0156 · Mar 3, 2018

VikingsGuy said:
Barnes copper bullets are softer than copper alloy shell of traditional bullets. Hornady and Nosler use the alloy in their mono bullets, but some say that hurts expansion. The grooves are meant to lesson the effect by minimizing surface contact.

I've never heard this before and it's making me curious. Got a source on this?

mtmuley · Mar 3, 2018

Bulldog0156 said:
I've never heard this before and it's making me curious. Got a source on this?

Barnes bullets are solid copper, or close to it. The GMX and E-Tip are constructed of gilding metal, an alloy of copper and zinc. Probly info on the bullet makers websites. mtmuley

HighDesertSage · Mar 3, 2018

Dougfirtree said:
Two questions for you, if you've got a minute:

1. How many rounds do you put through your barrel before needing to do a full, copper cleaning?

2. What do you consider to be the minimum velocity for good expansion with your bullet? (and which bullet is that?) Personally, I'm tinkering with the .284 140 ttsx.

Thanks!

1) ~50 Rounds
2) 2000 FPS

VikingsGuy · Mar 3, 2018

Bulldog0156 said:
I've never heard this before and it's making me curious. Got a source on this?

Google will answer any doubt you have about this.

Dougfirtree · Mar 3, 2018

Thanks for the responses. I'm closing in on a good load with the 140 ttsx for my 7mm-08. I have a contender with Big Game and another with RL 17, I just need another trip to the range to finalize. Either way, it won't be moving quite as fast as I had hoped and I just wanted to make sure the bullet will be functional out to 300 yards. Sounds like it will.

Deleted member 20812 · Mar 3, 2018

I agree on the 2000 FPS benchmark. I clean only when the have to, and I’ve found it to be a lot less often than I would have thought. In the neighborhood of 75-100 rounds.

BWALKER77 · Mar 4, 2018

Fouling hasnt been an issue with Barnes bullets since they added the grooves to the shank of the bullet.
As others have mentioned I would really try to keep impact velocity above 2000 fos with 2200 being even better.
I use to be obsessive about cleaning. For the last few years I onky clean when groups open up, which is a long time for a rifle just used for big game hunting. For my varmint rifles I have ran 500 rounds through them with out cleaning when using a powder with a decoppering agent.

Beanland_fan · Mar 4, 2018

If you have excessive fouling, you might try treating the bore with Dyna Bore Coat. Works wonderfully.

Don Fischer · Mar 4, 2018

I've never used a Barne's bullet. As I understand it, they are made out of pure copper and the original one's fouled bore's badly with copper. To fix that, the groove's in the bullet were but there to reduce fouling and apparently worked, they lessen the bearing surface. If I was to use a monolithic bullet it would be either the Hornady or Nosler bullet. They are made of guilding metal, same thing as the jacket's on cup and core bullet's. Of course years ago when Barne's only made cup and core bullet's the cups were solid copper and I don't recall hearing anything bad about fouling with them.

Tjay · Mar 4, 2018

You only need to clean when accuracy goes or at the end of the season before it goes in the safe.

I have found anything north of 2000 fps expands them just fine.

I have used Barnes tsx/ttsx, Nosler e-tips and Hornady gmx and they all work and none seem to be more copper prone than any other bullets I use.

BWALKER77 · Mar 4, 2018

Don Fischer said:
I've never used a Barne's bullet. As I understand it, they are made out of pure copper and the original one's fouled bore's badly with copper. To fix that, the groove's in the bullet were but there to reduce fouling and apparently worked, they lessen the bearing surface. If I was to use a monolithic bullet it would be either the Hornady or Nosler bullet. They are made of guilding metal, same thing as the jacket's on cup and core bullet's. Of course years ago when Barne's only made cup and core bullet's the cups were solid copper and I don't recall hearing anything bad about fouling with them.

Etips IME are quit a bit more bitchy as far as getting them to shoot good goes. Barnes have typicaly been very easy to get to shoot IME.
Cant comment in the GMX as I have never used them.

jryoung · Mar 5, 2018

Dougfirtree said:
Thanks. I was really hoping my rifle would like that 145 LRX, but it hated them. Seems to like 140 TTSX's though.

My rifle was okay with the 140, but I could never find the secret sauce. Then the 145 came out and my MOA groups consistently went below MOA. Reloading can be a frustrating and addictive exercise.

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