SE Montana winter kill

We could preserve opportunity and let more deer live by making the rut archery only.

Regular archery could still happen in September and the first part of October, then OTC rifle oct 15-nov 5, then back to archery. It’s not perfect and still a lot of hunting pressure but not having rifles in fairly open areas when deer are rutting would be sure to decrease some take.

Also, and i don’t know what the numbers are, but it seems like since the increase in population in Western ND, there has been more pressure in the ekalaka-Sidney area. Which makes sense, you have tens of thousands of more people within a couple hour drive, most of them have plenty of money, and their muley opportunities are limited where they live.
 
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Pointing to Utah as why we shouldn't make date changes or limit permits is disingenuous.

Utah has three times as many humans as Montana, and a much different landscape. Montana and Utah are as polar opposites as you can find from a management perspective.

Idaho and Wyoming are much more similar to Montana, and still provide residents with quality annual deer hunts without hunting the piss out of the animals for 11 weeks.
 
Randy11 said:
I missed your edit earlier with the info about 250. Good stuff, thanks Tony.

In my brain, if we move the season we should model Idaho more and keep it out of November completely. In my experience a mule deer buck is MUCH more vulnerable November 1 than October 20. I've seen lots of rutting activity around Halloween.
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+1. I know eastern mt lacks the terrain and remoteness of some of the units in Idaho but I would think all the private could make up for this. Hunting mule deer in October with a high powered rifle is still a hunt imo. November in eastern mt with a high powered rifle - not so much. I quit doing this many years ago and now only get the bow out. I really think success rates would drop overall with the Idaho season structure but I get others point that a dumb 2 point by the road is in trouble no matter the time of year.
 
Randy11 said:
I missed your edit earlier with the info about 250. Good stuff, thanks Tony.

In my brain, if we move the season we should model Idaho more and keep it out of November completely. In my experience a mule deer buck is MUCH more vulnerable November 1 than October 20. I've seen lots of rutting activity around Halloween.
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I definitely agree with that last paragraph Randy. Here on the west slope of the Big Horns in Wyoming we start seeing the better bucks the last week of October and our season ends on 10/31. I'm hunting the first week of our two week season every year, but don't really get excited to start seeing the better bucks until the last several days of October and the difference is quite easy to see as the days go by when the better bucks seem to come out of the woodwork.
 
Randy11 said:
Pointing to Utah as why we shouldn't make date changes or limit permits is disingenuous.

Utah has three times as many humans as Montana, and a much different landscape. Montana and Utah are as polar opposites as you can find from a management perspective.

Idaho and Wyoming are much more similar to Montana, and still provide residents with quality annual deer hunts without hunting the piss out of the animals for 11 weeks.
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That’s a good point Randy. It will be interesting to see how different management structures hold up as populations increase. If I remember correctly, Montana is projected to have 1.3 million people by 2060. Well below Utah currently. I am all for shortening seasons, but am highly resistant to going LE on many districts.
 
Nameless Range said:
That’s a good point Randy. It will be interesting to see how different management structures hold up as populations increase. If I remember correctly, Montana is projected to have 1.3 million people by 2060. Well below Utah currently. I am all for shortening seasons, but am highly resistant to going LE on many districts.
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I looked it up after my comment, and was actually surprised that Montana and Utah have similar mule deer populations, with Montana's certainly entering a valley after this winter. Luckily we have a plethora of whitetail options to take some of the pressure off mule deer, and we do have a much higher amount of private land that self regulates.

I don't want to see widespread limited entry either. That's a bad path to go down.
 
It’s not every April 7th you can cross country ski in the 20s in the Billings City limits.

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In my brain, if we move the season we should model Idaho more and keep it out of November completely. In my experience a mule deer buck is MUCH more vulnerable November 1 than October 20. I've seen lots of rutting activity around Halloween.[/QUOTE]

I think you hit the nail on the head. The problem I see here is most of you guy's want your cake and eat it too. Listen it's simple as this if you want better deer the bottom line is take has to be reduced in a major way in Montana. Heck open it up early October have a three week season close it down and chase elk being pushed out of the higher elevation in November.
I'd have to see it to believe it if there ever will be any helpful and significant changes ever made there. For the reason stated above.
 
One thing we should not forget about the Utah model is that in Utah there are lots of landowner and conservation tags. Just my opinion but those tags are the biggest problem with the Utah model, not that it is limited draw. If Montana were to go to limited draw the outfitting industry would all but be eliminated over night. Some may view this a a good thing. I view this as a be careful of what you wish for development. There would certainly be a big push to create more landowner/outfitter and conservation tags.
 
I think this is all wishful thinking . I agree with some of what has been said but I don't think anything is gonna change . Hopefully the next few years we have better winters
 
So how are the animals doing with this nasty winter in the central portion of the state? I was checking out the last few months of weather in Big Timber it seemed somewhat better than a few of the town's I checked farther east? Still nasty though there.
 
Just want to tag this thread. I'm from Wisconsin, my brother and I own a few semis that run the Pacific Northwest. I haven't been out there since September, but my brother and a couple of our drivers have been telling me about all the snow/cold. It's been a long winter here as well, but not the extent as Eastern MT. Really hoping the heard doesn't take too much of a hit, and that the game commission and hunters can make good choices.
 
brownbear932008 said:
So how are the animals doing with this nasty winter in the central portion of the state? I was checking out the last few months of weather in Big Timber it seemed somewhat better than a few of the town's I checked farther east? Still nasty though there.
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Big timber is in a Chinook wind zone. If it is 30° in Billings, it will be 20° in Columbus, and 40 to 50° in big timber, often with winds up to 70 mph. Even on days when it does not have the warmth, the winds keep the snow clear. You will find the same thing at the Stillwater mine at nye, on the east facing Beartooth foothills between Red Lodge and the Wyoming border, and in the Livingston area.
 
8andcounting said:
I think this is all wishful thinking . I agree with some of what has been said but I don't think anything is gonna change . Hopefully the next few years we have better winters
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You are likely right. With easy winters private land will recover in a few years. It will take much longer for the large blocks of public. Parts of the Custer had yet to fully recover form the winter earlier in the decade and we in SE Montana were missed by the worst of that winter. It would not surprise me if the Custer never recovers from this year with out a change in management.
 
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8andcounting said:
I think this is all wishful thinking . I agree with some of what has been said but I don't think anything is gonna change . Hopefully the next few years we have better winters
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Well yeah it's all wishful thinking, nothing is gonna change I'm just gonna keep chasing sheep and late season bulls and if a once in a lifetime mountain giant appears nighty night.
 
I think the one thing hunters Could do , key word being could , is lay off the doe's . But hey if Fwp sells em there must be plenty of deer . Right ......
 
There's always plenty in this state, there's plenty now and we'll have plenty to go around for years to come.
 
8andcounting said:
I think the one thing hunters Could do , key word being could , is lay off the doe's . But hey if Fwp sells em there must be plenty of deer . Right ......
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And there lies the mindset of the guys buying the B tags. Most pay no attention to anything other than yanking the trigger. mtmuley
 
brownbear932008 said:
So how are the animals doing with this nasty winter in the central portion of the state? I was checking out the last few months of weather in Big Timber it seemed somewhat better than a few of the town's I checked farther east? Still nasty though there.
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I have been shed hunting east of Lewistown for the last 5 weekends, in the same general area and find a new dead deer every day I go out. Still a few running around, but a couple of them look rough.
 
We got 4” Of snow last night but it will be gone by Tuesday for the next storm to roll in Friday. Seen reports of 12”-18” of snow in Friday’s storm. Poor ranchers trying to calve in this junk
 
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