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  1. #76
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    Jul 2016
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    Wherever the bugles are
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    just an update HB 658 has passed the house now.

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    southwest Idaho
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    522

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    Here's an article on the bill passing the House. http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/boise...o-hour-debate/

    Rep. Christy Perry, R-Nampa, said a lobbyist for a Texas family that recently purchased large amounts of land in Valley County and closed much of it to hunting and public access, leading to well-publicized clashes with locals, approached her last summer about beefing up trespassing laws.
    No surprise there.

    Also at http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/p...204633849.html

    The Statesman also provides a copy of the opinion from the Idaho Attorney General's office: http://legacy.idahostatesman.com/Tre...arch8Rubel.pdf It points out several conflicts and potential conflicts, and ends with "The overlap between the proposed amendments to various trespass statutes and pending self-defense bills adopting stand your ground/castle doctrine language would likely increase the risk of serious injury or death to otherwise innocent trespassers."

    I guess it's time to write more letters and make a phone call to the Senate now. I fully support private property rights and trespassing penalties commensurate with damages, but this bill leaves us commoners with no protection against unethical landowners.

  3. #78

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    To me as a new resident here in the state it is looking like onx maps is a cheap investment. Just need to have the tracking on when you are close to any lines so you can prove where you were. The one thing I feel is a little BS is that the property can sue you and if he win you have to pay his court cost and you can't do the same when you win. When hunting in checker board areas this could make it harder if you have some land owners that feel like they own the state lands as well or think that they think they get a buffer zone around their land

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    American Falls, Idaho
    Posts
    223

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    Contacted my senator today, was happy to see both representatives in my area voted no on it's vote in the House though
    The mountains are calling...I must go.

  5. #80

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    Little chance this doesn't go to a vote in the senate asap as the Resources and Environment committed is chaired by Steve Bair and Jeff Siddoway both on 6th terms...

  6. #81
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Boise, Idaho
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    3,652

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    Quote Originally Posted by OwyheeHuntr View Post
    Little chance this doesn't go to a vote in the senate asap as the Resources and Environment committed is chaired by Steve Bair and Jeff Siddoway both on 6th terms...
    Yup, a couple of real winners.
    "Talk low, talk slow and don't say too much." John Wayne

  7. #82

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    So, this law is based off of the idea that everyone has a GPS or smartphone to be compliant. If it passes can I write off my phone and GPS on my state taxes?

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    southwest Idaho
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    522

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    Here are some points I noticed in an update from IWF about HB 658 (the revision of original HB 536) today at http://www.idahowildlife.org/hb-658-...th-amendments/

    On Tuesday, March 20, HB 658 got some changes approved by the Senate.
    ...
    It will be voted on by the Senate Wednesday, March 21st. If approved the new bill will head back to the House Committee, where public testimony will not be allowed, unfortunately.
    ...
    IWF and other sportsmen groups submitted a number of Amendments to make the bill palatable to sportsmen, which were largely rejected.
    ...
    Proposed changes by law enforcement associations like the Idaho Sheriffs and the Police Chiefs, even a few Mayors, went unanswered.
    ...
    So, a high burden is still put upon the innocent to prove accusations were unfounded, meaning the provision is still not equitable.
    ...
    in existing code, the public is allowed to wade or portage outside the high water mark onto private property to avoid obstacles in the waterway, like a fence. We proposed an amendment to reinforce this right so folks avoiding a hazard wouldn’t be subject to a lawsuit. Without this provision, there will be significant grey area in this code section
    ...
    Under all versions of the bill, property lines have been blurred due to relaxed posting requirements, so we expressed concerns about retrieving game.
    They also cover additional rejected amendments regarding posting public land as private, definition of private property, and corner crossing.

  9. #84

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    I’ll remember who votes for this bill, and their party in November.

  10. #85

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    Senate passed an amended version today on what sounds to be a straight party line vote. This bill has fully exposed how easy it is to buy off state politicians as it has fully come out the bill is the work of the Wilks brothers, complete with their attorneys and lobbyists being heavily present around the state capitol. Sounds to be some serious issues with possible unlawful lobbying as well that seems to be largely ignored. Time to call the governor and ask him to veto this junk.

    I definitely won't be forgetting my reps votes this fall, multiple emails and phone calls to them with no response and they've been voting yes...

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by huntid73 View Post
    Contacted my senator today, was happy to see both representatives in my area voted no on it's vote in the House though
    I was happy with their votes as well after I had contacted them. Both Republicans as well and still went against the grain. Not so for our senator though. Although unlikely in this state, hopefully we can oust him as well as the rest of the fools in the next election.

  12. #87

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    Both my reps voted party line for it, same with my senator... called and emailed them repeatedly over the last 3-4 weeks- I have yet to hear back from any of them. Guess that special interest $$$ was too good to turn down. At least the East ID boys tell me to my face they dont give a damn about sportsmen/women etc. All they are worried about is cutting back room deals with anyone willing to line their pockets or support their pet causes. I sure hope sportsman dont forget come election time-what a joke....

  13. #88

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    I can see both sides of this one, but a FELONY!? As in, lose your right to vote, own firearms, make it hard to find employment?! That's too far. Where this one would scare me the most is in regards to fishing and stream access. I'm not sure exactly where things stand in Idaho, but in my time living in Montana, New York and Minnesota, I've seen MANY instances of landowners posting stream access that was perfectly legal, trying to intimidate people from accessing what was theirs. People are going to be less apt to stand up for themselves if the potential punishment is so harsh. I'll bet there's no felony conviction for an illegal posted sign...

  14. #89

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    The response I finally got back from one of my reps after she voted yes was basically to say sorry for not getting back to me, she's just way too busy and had over 750 unread emails. Nice to see she keeps up with her constituents and listens to them...

    Governor is taking his time and the pressure has definitely been on for him to veto. Unfortunately the legislature is staying in session to try and override his veto if it happens.

  15. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobG View Post

    A few things from my experience in Montana. 1) those GPS units use cadastral data that can be off my hundreds of feet. 2)
    If you didn't read this. Read it. Then read it again. Then read it again. Then google 'BLM GCDB' (Geographic Coordinate Database) and get a good understanding on what the GCDB is and how its parcellines are produced. I explain this to people all the time, yet everyone still thinks that a $100 OnX chip is gospel to a centimeter.
    “To me, if you don’t eat it, then it’s not a point of pride”. -Matt Rinella

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Western Montana
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    2,435

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTGomer View Post
    If you didn't read this. Read it. Then read it again. Then read it again. Then google 'BLM GCDB' (Geographic Coordinate Database) and get a good understanding on what the GCDB is and how its parcellines are produced. I explain this to people all the time, yet everyone still thinks that a $100 OnX chip is gospel to a centimeter.
    So true. OnX gets their parcel data from the the State Library. The State Library's cadastral data is based on the CadNSDI, which is based on a mapping control point database which derives from the GCDB.

    The State Library is always working on improving the CadNSDI by hiring surveyors to go out and get better mapping control in locations that they know it is off. They have an interesting set of maps here kind of highlighting the process and where they are at and where they will be making improvments in the future. One of the wierd things about correcting parcels, if you pull or adjust a PLSS point or line, of which many parcels and/or boundaries are based on, then there is potential to effect the acreage, boundary, and shape of nearby parcels or boundaries(on the map). So as the State updates the CadNSDI, the "Parcel Fabric" can be adjusted as well. Usually small adjustments that are controlled, but as RobG and MTGomer say it can be big.

    Here's a small example that could have consequences . The underlying imagery can be used to see the error. The State Parcels(blue) actually ends on the north side of that road, but according the most recent PLSS/Cadastral, it crosses over the road. That's off by 80 feet. Now imagine if you were trying to cross a corner, or walk the edge of a boundary where no physical representations of the boundary, like a road or fence existed. I'd bet things like this exist in Idaho too.

    It's all the more reason this is a bad bill, there are certain instances, where the only way for a guy to know whether or not he was trespassing, would be to have a surveyor accompany him in the field with a big pile of deeds. That's an extreme example, but this bill is unnecessarily heavy-handed.
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  17. #92

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    It's law now. The governor didn't sign it, but he didn't veto it either. I guess that's his way of saying that he doesn't approve, but he knows a very will be over ridden.
    "You are a fool to argue health insurance with Nemont, Resource management with Buzz, or spelling with Moosie.." - Jose Cuervo

  18. #93

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    Sad
    To what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?

  19. #94

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    Governor's words about the bill were pretty disappointing basically saying its a bad bill but it will be up to future politicians to fix it. It could have dramatic effects in certain parts of the state depending on how the new posting requirements are interpreted and how sticky some landowners, especially timber companies, want to get. Real bummer to watch politics play out the way they did on this bill and unfortunately I'm sure plenty of those effected will forget or vote the way they always do this fall.

  20. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTone View Post
    I'm sure plenty of those effected will forget or vote the way they always do this fall.
    I won't and I will be actively campaigning against anyone who voted for the bill. I may not have billions to buy politicians but I can vote against them.

  21. #96

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    My guess is there will be more than a few folks that like to hunt upland birds in the south central part of the state that will get a big surprise this fall/winter because of this law...

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    American Falls, Idaho
    Posts
    223

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    +1 on that brymoore, I have a feeling that this election cycle in Idaho is going to be very important to the survival of hunting and recreation in our state. I'm very worried about Mr. Labrador's run for the office, and with this bill's passage, I'm concerned. Maybe I'm just seeing the negative, but it seems like this year will be a big one.
    The mountains are calling...I must go.

  23. #98

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    can anyone point me to the vote (who voted for it and who voted against it) ?

    never mind I found it

    https://legislature.idaho.gov/sessio...slation/H0658/
    Last edited by pdq_wizzard; 03-29-2018 at 12:16 PM.

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