Utah Research Question

bjochem · Feb 15, 2018

Buddy and I are planning on applying for multiple states to begin building points. Elk bug hit us hard last year with our first trip to Idaho. Planning on starting to build points in Utah. Can someone point me in the direction of how many permits are available per unit? By the look of the draw stats we are a ways out anyway but I was curious. We will be doing limited entry archery. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

elkantlers · Feb 15, 2018

Look at previous years. This will give you a pretty good idea.

https://wildlife.utah.gov/big-game-drawing-odds-and-point-reports.html

Idahoarcheryhunter · Feb 15, 2018

Utah is a PIA for archery elk unless you wait a LONG time to build into the high pool point to possibly draw a desired area with good season dates like the San Juan or others like that. Better states to build points in for elk with better season dates IMO.

wannakillabigbull · Feb 16, 2018

Like said, Utah is a PIA to apply for. A large percentage of units only give one nonresident elk tag, and if that happens, the tag never goes to the highest point holder it'll go randomly. So you're never guaranteed the tag no matter how long you wait. Draw odds generally are bad all around but you could always get lucky.

And you may already be aware, but it's worth mentioning, if you draw a tag in Utah for elk you get put on a wait list and can't even apply for points for the next 5 years. So say you get lucky and draw a tag, then wait 5 years and start again with 0 points, and get lucky and draw with 8 points (that's pretty lucky for most units). You're talking about a 14 year wait between tags even if you get really lucky. Minimum 6 year wait if you are the luckiest man alive. Lots of other states you can draw good tags in without waiting more than a few years to go back.

wildaggie13 · Feb 16, 2018

You will never draw a Utah elk tag if you don't apply!! I drew premium tag with only 4 points, so anything is possible. I do agree with the other guys though, there are lots of other states that will allow you to hunt elk more often. While you are honing your skills on those you might as well be trying to draw a Utah tag. Just my 2 cents.

NoWiser · Feb 16, 2018

Starting now, you will never draw a good Utah tag with a lot of public land in the top point pool. You are looking at about a $50.00 a year (price goes down if you apply for more species) raffle ticket with single digit odds. I have a few Utah points for elk, deer, and sheep, and put in for lower tier units. I never plan on drawing in my life, and think about quitting each year, but the dream is worth the price of admission for me.

Idhikker · Feb 16, 2018

A buddy from UT said you can get a point through the draw and buy a point in the same year. True?

If the long waits were actually half as long that would be more attractive. There aren't many nonresident permits though.

rmyoung1 · Feb 16, 2018

Idhikker said:
A buddy from UT said you can get a point through the draw and buy a point in the same year. True?.

No, that’s incorrect. Only one point per year. As mentioned above, limited entry elk in UT is tough. I have 11 points... still waiting. If you aren’t caught up on taking a bull, they have antlerless hunts with high success rates. Those tags are much easier to draw.

Carnage2011 · Feb 16, 2018

Utah has some great elk hunts. There are some good archery tags that don’t take a ton of time to draw. Don’t chase the top end units and you will have a chance to draw within 10-12 years.

BlakeA · Feb 16, 2018

NoWiser said:
Starting now, you will never draw a good Utah tag with a lot of public land in the top point pool. You are looking at about a $50.00 a year (price goes down if you apply for more species) raffle ticket with single digit odds. I have a few Utah points for elk, deer, and sheep, and put in for lower tier units. I never plan on drawing in my life, and think about quitting each year, but the dream is worth the price of admission for me.

While I agree that Utah is a TOUGH pull for guys just starting out, I will disagree with the notion that you will "never" draw a good Utah tag with lots of public land. As long as there is at least one tag available you have a chance. In fact, if you look at who more often than not pulls the tags after the "top point" holders in the random pass it is typically guys with 0-2 points. A friend of mine drew the Book Cliffs rifle tag with zero points. Another guy I know drew the same tag with zero points. Two guys in back to back years first time applying.

NoWiser, we just have to be more like those guys

NoWiser · Feb 16, 2018

BlakeA said:
While I agree that Utah is a TOUGH pull for guys just starting out, I will disagree with the notion that you will "never" draw a good Utah tag with lots of public land. As long as there is at least one tag available you have a chance. In fact, if you look at who more often than not pulls the tags after the "top point" holders in the random pass it is typically guys with 0-2 points. A friend of mine drew the Book Cliffs rifle tag with zero points. Another guy I know drew the same tag with zero points. Two guys in back to back years first time applying.

NoWiser, we just have to be more like those guys

I said he'd never draw in the top point pool, meaning one of the 50% of the tags given to those with the most points for a unit. (Obviously there are units like North Cache and Meadowville that are exceptions.) It's possible that if he's young enough he could work his way up there, but I still think it's unlikely. I'm in the same boat.

He could very well draw one of the 50% of tags that go out in the random bonus point draw. Odds aren't great, but they aren't impossible, either, as your friends have proven. Those are the tags I go for. Now, I just need a little luck!

mtmiller · Feb 16, 2018

As long as you are putting in for multiple states, sure, why not. If you were only putting in for one state, UT wouldn't be my recommendation. As mentioned, you can get lucky. I have 9 points and my odds are still crap, but since I am more interested in mountain goat and deer, I will continue to roll the dice. If I ever get deer and goat out of the way, I hope to have enough points for a good elk hunt.

bjochem · Feb 16, 2018

Didn't expect this kind of feedback. Thanks a ton. Currently 30 yrs old. Our plan right now is to keep doing our normal routine and throwing in a WY elk here and there (2019), MT, ID of necessary, GF has been building points in CO so that is a year. Also starting to build muley points on UT, CO and WY. Based on money spent and desires it may be time to split from WI.

bjochem · Feb 16, 2018

I knew UT was tough but you guys make it sound horrible. Is it even possible for a group of 2 to draw in the same year in any unit?

Stubaby · Feb 16, 2018

Yo

bjochem said:
I knew UT was tough but you guys make it sound horrible. Is it even possible for a group of 2 to draw in the same year in any unit?

Ya if you have enough points. Heres my .02.

Put in for Utah, but make sure you are putting in for all species, not just elk. If you are buying the $85 combo to put in, you might as well get points for everything.

I used to think that "Ill never draw....." last year I drew a sheep tag with less than .05% chance, and I just drew a really good rifle elk tag in Utah at the expo(during the rut). This allows me to kill a nice mature bull and my points are still mine till next year.

:hump::hump:

You have to pay to play. Use Utah as a....."one day I'll draw but Im building points till I do but hey, theres always a chance" State. Treat it like a 401K...just let it ride.

IMO montana has the best OTC archery elk hunting there is. You can hunt Colorado, Montana, and Idaho every year and still build points for Utah, Colorado, Nevada, Montana, etc. This is possible because Montana and Colorado still let you hunt without burning your points because your points only go away when you draw your first choice application. Utah can also be good if you are ok with shooting a spike or cow. This will allow you to hone in on your skills and get to know the units. Recon scouting through a spike tag can make or break hunts in the future.

I would never want to draw a limited entry hunt and have anyone I know with the same tag and vice versa. When me or one of my buddys has a coveted tag I love to help. General tags are fun to hunt as a group with each their own tag, but trying to make the most of a limited tag with multiple tag holders really puts the pressure on, IMO.

Good luck...every season you sit out is one you won't get back.

Alabama · Feb 16, 2018

bjochem said:
I knew UT was tough but you guys make it sound horrible. Is it even possible for a group of 2 to draw in the same year in any unit?

Some units yes but most units no. The odds were bad when you could only apply for 1 regular species (deer, antelope, or elk) and 1 once in a lifetime species (sheep, moose, goat, or bison) per year. They changed it 2009ish so that NR could apply for all species and now the odds went from bad to awful. There are a ton of applicants with 8 points or less since the change in the draw.

bjochem · Feb 16, 2018

Stubaby I know what you're saying. I appreciate the input. I can't speak for my buddy but I know I would rather us both have an opportunity. We both took my dad back out to fill his deer tag this year for a second trip after we both filled in SD this year in Oct. but this is a little bigger deal than an OTC deer tag 11 hours from home. You guys have been great.

Stubaby · Feb 16, 2018

Alabama is right. It’s a log jam!!!!

I moved to Billings in 2006. Right after that they let NR build points for all species.

After 10 years of that I moved back home to Utah. Now I’m way ahead. It’s a dumb rule but I wasn’t going to not do it. Out of state people who are just getting started are screwd.

Highlands Hunter · Feb 18, 2018

Definitely apply in Utah, it is one of the cheaper states to apply for licenses. $10 per species and a $65 hunting licenses that is good for 365 days!

TheDudeAbides · Feb 18, 2018

BlakeA said:
While I agree that Utah is a TOUGH pull for guys just starting out, I will disagree with the notion that you will "never" draw a good Utah tag with lots of public land. As long as there is at least one tag available you have a chance. In fact, if you look at who more often than not pulls the tags after the "top point" holders in the random pass it is typically guys with 0-2 points. A friend of mine drew the Book Cliffs rifle tag with zero points. Another guy I know drew the same tag with zero points. Two guys in back to back years first time applying.

NoWiser, we just have to be more like those guys

I drew the late elk hunt at the books with 6 points. Maybe it is just a book cliffs thing.

I think Utah depends whether or not you want to apply.

There are some general deer units with better odds for non residents than residents. There is also swan tags that take 3 years to draw, which can be a vacation every 3 years and use of your license. The GSL has some decent duck hunting. Utah also has a handful of chukars with a long season. If you plan on using the license fees for hunting general deer, swans, upland game, or ducks; then it is worth it.

If you are only going to make a trip when you draw an LE or OIL, then it may not be worth applying. There is a case for that.

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